Three Crown Questions - Year, Badge, And Hubs?

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Brian R.

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 16, 2015
426
Toronto, Canada
I bought this bike with no head badge. The best guess is that it is a Crown by Great Western Mfg, due to the cutouts in the bottom bracket and Fauber crank set. I've been researching Crowns on this site and discovered that GWM made the Fauber crank set, so that makes sense. I also found photos of a Crown that seems to have the same frame construction and headset. If you think it's not a Crown but something else, please reply! Ignore the seat and front fender, as I believe they are not original to this bike.

1. What year or year range was this bike made by Great Western?

2. Which design of Crown badge was mostly likely on this bike originally? There is one tiny screw near the top front of the head tube, and I cannot find any other screw holes (but a second one might be hidden under rust). A photo would be great if you have one!

3. What make of hub brake and front hub were on this bike when new? Mine has a Hercules hub brake made by Canada Cycle and Motor (CCM), which is clearly not the correct one.

If you have parts for this bike that you are willing to sell, like a head badge, hub brake, front hub, handlebar stem, and handlebars, please contact me.

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Brian R.

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 16, 2015
426
Toronto, Canada
I found this photo of a Cyrus by Great Western. The fork crown, just visible, is the same as mine, and other photos of that bike show the same frame construction. When I look at the photo of the bare head tube on my bike, either it's my imagination or I can almost see the outline of a letter C like the one on that badge. But C stands for Crown too.
CyrusHeadBadge.jpg
 
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boardhoarder

Finally riding a big boys bike
Sep 5, 2014
117
Oakland, United States
I have a Crown that has the same badge as the Cyrus you posted above, but mine says 'Crown'
 
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Brian R.

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 16, 2015
426
Toronto, Canada
Do you know the year of your bike? I found your post with that bike, thanks. I saw those photos earlier and saved the photo of the head badge, but noted the fork crown was different. I hope to figure out if the difference in the fork crown is explained by either a different year or different model.
 
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locomotion

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jan 15, 2011
2,639
QC
before moving forward Brian, I would suggest you clean the headtube and try to find the second headbadge hole
and take measurements
it will be a better starting point than going all over the place with this, IMO
Great Western had all kinds of different headbadges during that period maybe there are differences in the distance between the holes!!!
 
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boardhoarder

Finally riding a big boys bike
Sep 5, 2014
117
Oakland, United States
Glad you found the thread on my Crown, Brian.

You want to try sending a private message to member CrownKing. I don't think he's on here much, but he did respond to me right away and was able to give me some good info on my bike.

Here's a little blurb from some of the info he sent me, which you might find interesting:

This is a very nice original untouched example, as many have mentioned already. Congrats on the find! It is always exciting to me as the historian for this factory to see such a fine early example, especially one that is relatively unmolested. This would date from 1900-1905+. Not much visual documentation exists from this early period. This company was originally called the Crown Cycle Company, so after the merger took place(1898/99) to Great Western, Crown was their flagship model. Cyrus was a name that was used in the early days of the factory and the Cyrus badge shares this same design. There were 7 different Crown badge designs over the span of the company's 30-year production. This bike sports one of the first 2.

Good luck with yours, it's a nice one.
 
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Brian R.

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 16, 2015
426
Toronto, Canada
Hi Boardhoarder - while you were typing your reply I was taking sandpaper to the head tube in search of that second badge screw hole, as per Locomotion's advice. I found it, a broken off screw that had blended in with the other rust. It's exactly 3 inches from the top screw. Can you measure your big letter C badge please and tell me the distance between the screws? I did PM CrownKing a few days ago, but no reply as of yet. It is a nice bike. The focus of my collection is Canadian-made bikes, but I've made 3 exceptions, a Flo-Cycle, a '57 Columbia original paint, and this one. It's hard to explain why, but it's a beautiful bike. I plan to restore it to its former glory - but I need parts!
 

locomotion

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jan 15, 2011
2,639
QC
3" i will also check Brian on mine
I also tried reaching the CrownKing, but didn't get a reply
and the info on the brand is hard to find, not much online
 

boardhoarder

Finally riding a big boys bike
Sep 5, 2014
117
Oakland, United States
Brian, I went to measure my head badge hole spacing and just noticed for the first time that the holes are side-by-side, rather than vertical. Clearly, I'm not very observant. Ha.

Anyway, that's a difference that I hadn't noticed between my badge and the Cyrus badge...I'd originally thought were exactly the same. See the thread on my Crown for photos of the badge.

Oh, and in case anyone is interested, hole spacing is 2 3/16"
 

bricycle

I'm the Wiz, and nobody beats me!
Nov 18, 2009
22,720
Chicago area west
Shallow fenders like that were all pretty much 1919 and earlier
 
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tommydale1950

I live for the CABE
Jun 12, 2012
1,346
Fredonia, NY, United States
Shallow fenders like that were all pretty much 1919 and earlier
Hi Boardhoarder - while you were typing your reply I was taking sandpaper to the head tube in search of that second badge screw hole, as per Locomotion's advice. I found it, a broken off screw that had blended in with the other rust. It's exactly 3 inches from the top screw. Can you measure your big letter C badge please and tell me the distance between the screws? I did PM CrownKing a few days ago, but no reply as of yet. It is a nice bike. The focus of my collection is Canadian-made bikes, but I've made 3 exceptions, a Flo-Cycle, a '57 Columbia original paint, and this one. It's hard to explain why, but it's a beautiful bike. I plan to restore it to its former glory - but I need parts!
 

bricycle

I'm the Wiz, and nobody beats me!
Nov 18, 2009
22,720
Chicago area west
Well I'll be.... usually those Fauber chain wheels are 1/2" pitch......
 

Brian R.

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 16, 2015
426
Toronto, Canada
image.jpeg
Thanks everyone for your input. The distance between the screw holes on my mystery bike is 3 inches. If anyone who reads this has a suitable Great Western badge they could sell, please contact me. I pm'd the owner of the Cyrus asking him for the measurement of that badge but he hasn't replied as of yet. I'd love to know as it looks like it could be 3".

Nobody has expressed an opinion on GW hubs. I read somewhere a reference to New Departure Model A, so that's what I'll go with unless I hear otherwise. I'm still looking for a year as well. My best guess is c.1910. GW bikes from the mid to late teens have a top tube that curves downward toward the seat tube. This one is straight. I'll post a photo.
 

Brian R.

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 16, 2015
426
Toronto, Canada
That's interesting, thanks. I never would have noticed if you hadn't pointed that out. I'm guessing your badge does not measure 3" between the holes, right? - probably 2 5/8 or 2 3/4. I placed an ad for a Great Western badge (of any nameplate) with 3" hole spacing in the wanted to buy section, but haven't received any replies. I'm concerned I'll never be able to get the right badge for this frame. ugh.
 
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