What are these off of: Heavy Duty Center Stamped S2 with 120 Gauge Spokes and RB1 Hub and Heavy Duty Center Stamped S7 with 105 gauge spokes with RB1

[AS-1]

Yes, unfortunately it was robbed of the axle assembly before it came to me.

Darn! I was gonna try to talk you out of it.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

I'm sorry John, but while the "knock-out" race theory you mentioned sort of makes sense, it is incorrect. There were Schwinn made small flange hubs that also had removable races during the late 50s-mid 60s era we are talking about and they were great! They were not called out by Schwinn as knock-out hubs though. If I were buying a bike new then, I would have opted for just the replaceable cup/outer cone small flange hub instead of the HD knock-out Bendix hub. BUT, if I wanted 120ga or 105ga spokes(like OP), the Schwinn stamped small flange hubs were not offered with large enough holes. I have multiple examples of the Model K, even one with the regular rear right side cone on both sides like you mentioned.
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The Quill axle version does not have two different length cones like you described, but it does have different length threaded sections on the hollow/quill axle to allow for adjustment while the other side(presumably the right) stays against the shoulder. The Model K with the Quill axle is what the knock-out hub is referring to in advertising though, I'm 100% certain. The knock-out term is used at least as early as 1946 with the Cycle Truck front hubs. If anyone has ever worked on a Cycle Truck, they know the value of a quill axle that will "knock-out" through the non-slotted fork.

From my personal catalog collection:

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From the 1946 Waterford Catalog site:
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Also from the 1959 Waterford Catalog(same as previous Wasp pic post) :

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@WillWork4Parts , I'm sorry you took my "comments, and opinions" so personally. After re-reading my post, and your post, I see many things we agree on. Some corrections are also needed.

You are absolutely right that The Bendix K hub cones (HDH-7) for the quill hub came in only one length. I was thinking about the "long, and short side of the axle quill". The Bendix K hub cone for use with a "non-quill" axle is HDH-7A. It is not a normal Bendix coaster brake adjusting cone (BB-7). It kinda looks like it, but it is actually a different part. The HDH-7A also comes in only one length. I have a few NOS Bendix K cones in both axle types if someone needs them to repair a hub. The Bendix K hub, and all of it's various versions was a good service hub. The cones did not last long when subjected to heavy use they got "decay and cavities" where the bearings rode. It likely is a moot point discussing the fact they did not have replaceable bearing cups because the weak point was clearly the cone, not the hub shell.

I'm not sure why you brought up the Schwinn Deluxe hub because I already mentioned it in my post as being a good serviceable hub and was in the line for many years.

It's of interest that as of the January 1964 printing of the dealer parts catalog Schwinn still listed replacement parts for the Bendix K hubs. But, they did not even make mention or list any replacement parts for the Schwinn built Heavy Duty (phone dial) hubs which were still being used as original equipment just a few years before that period. They did still list the Schwinn Built Paramount track front and rear hubs and axle sets for parts (likely because of slow moving stock). This was clearly the point when the parts resourcing was taking place. They showed parts for the Schwinn Approved German made Komet, and (F&S) Boy hubs. Also, the Mark IV Schwinn Approved English made Perry coaster brakes which were showing up on new Schwinn's. @GTs58 will be interested to know that they still listed the complete Schwinn Deluxe hub in both 28 and 36 hole available as replacements "as of January 1964". On the very next page they list two different Union front hubs as available replacements. The axles, nuts, and bearings are interchangeable, but the cones and hub shells are different (still stamped Schwinn).

My original comment is that Schwinn used the term Knock Out very loosely in its literature. My interpretation is of a replaceable bearing cup, that you knock out and install a replacement cup without having to respoke the wheel with a new hub. You could also make a good case for the quill style axle used in the Bendix K series hubs. With a quill you can "knock the axle out of the quill" and replace the axle. It's not really the same thing as repairing a damaged bearing or race. The reason I brought this up in the first place is because Schwinn used whatever heavy duty hub they had available "on the shelf" at the time the order was released for production. It was like a Cracker Jack, you got a surprise in every box you opened. We did not view the Schwinn Heavy Duty hub, as better or inferior to the Bendix K hubs, they were just a different sourced part. During this period lots of substitutions were made during production. IMO, dealers actually appreciated Schwinn making these substitutions, because the alternative was for them to cancel the bike and "short ship" your order.

Sorry if we disagreed on the meaning on the term Knock Out.

John

 

[AS-1]

Replaceable (knock-out) bearing cups still available in 1983 (as used on Heavy-Duti models).

 

[Gordon]

I'm sorry John, but while the "knock-out" race theory you mentioned sort of makes sense, it is incorrect. There were Schwinn made small flange hubs that also had removable races during the late 50s-mid 60s era we are talking about and they were great! They were not called out by Schwinn as knock-out hubs though. If I were buying a bike new then, I would have opted for just the replaceable cup/outer cone small flange hub instead of the HD knock-out Bendix hub. BUT, if I wanted 120ga or 105ga spokes(like OP), the Schwinn stamped small flange hubs were not offered with large enough holes. I have multiple examples of the Model K, even one with the regular rear right side cone on both sides like you mentioned.
View attachment 1892338

View attachment 1892339

View attachment 1892337
The Quill axle version does not have two different length cones like you described, but it does have different length threaded sections on the hollow/quill axle to allow for adjustment while the other side(presumably the right) stays against the shoulder. The Model K with the Quill axle is what the knock-out hub is referring to in advertising though, I'm 100% certain. The knock-out term is used at least as early as 1946 with the Cycle Truck front hubs. If anyone has ever worked on a Cycle Truck, they know the value of a quill axle that will "knock-out" through the non-slotted fork.

From my personal catalog collection:

View attachment 1892344

View attachment 1892342

View attachment 1892343

From the 1946 Waterford Catalog site:
View attachment 1892346

Also from the 1959 Waterford Catalog(same as previous Wasp pic post) :

View attachment 1892345

Thank you for posting photos of the cones with the long parts, whatever it is called. I have one in my parts bin and had no idea what it was for.

 

[ricobike]

@cruisin_on_my_schwinn is on the right path to save the HD S-2 for a Wasp as the Redband hub and HD spokes was an option in later 59.

Everything I've seen about the original Bendix RB hub says that it was produced from 61 to 63.

 

[WillWork4Parts]

Everything I've seen about the original Bendix RB hub says that it was produced from 61 to 63.

View attachment 1893006

Ah, seems you're right then, my Wasp should have the Flying B hub on the rear. RB hub works fine for @cruisin_on_my_schwinn though since his Wasp is a late 61 serial with a 62 paint scheme.