65 BF Goodrich Challenger Sabre

[Spacecowboy]

Here's one i got awhile back and finally was able to get it back to stock with a new fork, seat, bars, pedals and front fender.

Frame serial clocks in as 65, rear hub as a 64. The x code on the frame should be x7 but its an x10. According to murray serial number project lead post, it should be a western flyer badged bike. Been a number years since I went thru that list, for this serial, and I'm not sure if I already posted it there.
the fork is actually a darker red and might be a bit metallic. The front fender i think might be from a 2.2125 tire bike, but it worked out, tho its a bit less faded red than the rear.

 

[NBHAA]

Here's one i got awhile back and finally was able to get it back to stock with a new fork, seat, bars, pedals and front fender.

Frame serial clocks in as 65, rear hub as a 64. The x code on the frame should be x7 but its an x10. According to murray serial number project lead post, it should be a western flyer badged bike. Been a number years since I went thru that list, for this serial, and I'm not sure if I already posted it there.
the fork is actually a darker red and might be a bit metallic. The front fender i think might be from a 2.2125 tire bike, but it worked out, tho its a bit less faded red than the rear.
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WHY should a B.F. Goodrich be a "Western Flyer"????? And WHY should a B.F. Goodrich have the SAME serial number as Murray or a Western Flyer?????

WOW. This serial number supposition stuff has gotten completely out of hand... and into fallacy land.

LD
NBHAA.com

 

[Spacecowboy]

oh yea well thats from the murray serial number project thread under classic balloon bikes. They made that supposition about the x number code part. You might want to ask them about it. I think I'm reading it wrong at any rate because there is a seven after it.

I get it tho, your reply is really more of a rhetorical question setting me up for inaccurate answer so you can tell me how wrong I am.

That's ok, I just wanted the year off the serial number to jive with wheel set since I'm now selling the bike.

Why it matters is so I can say its a 65 frame, chainguard, the headbadge and crank that from all appearances seems to have always been kept together with the 64 wheelset.

I've just set up this post with what I found on the bike. It's for future reference for someone else to use as a starting point on thier bike. They can figure out if their x code appears to match or not.

I've also set this post up because there's not much about the murray bfg Challenger bikes, so much that I basically just look at murrays and sears adverts for deluxe bike info. This one was pretty basic so really didn't need that. In this forum, I think theres only 4 posts/threads on bfg murray Challenger bikes, and none on the Sabre.

Anyways, it probaly only really mattered to murray whatever the x code was about.

 

[NBHAA]

oh yea well thats from the murray serial number project thread under classic balloon bikes. They made that supposition about the x number code part. You might want to ask them about it. I think I'm reading it wrong at any rate because there is a seven after it.

I get it tho, your reply is really more of a rhetorical question setting me up for inaccurate answer so you can tell me how wrong I am.

That's ok, I just wanted the year off the serial number to jive with wheel set since I'm now selling the bike.

Why it matters is so I can say its a 65 frame, chainguard, the headbadge and crank that from all appearances seems to have always been kept together with the 64 wheelset.

I've just set up this post with what I found on the bike. It's for future reference for someone else to use as a starting point on thier bike. They can figure out if their x code appears to match or not.

I've also set this post up because there's not much about the murray bfg Challenger bikes, so much that I basically just look at murrays and sears adverts for deluxe bike info. This one was pretty basic so really didn't need that. In this forum, I think theres only 4 posts/threads on bfg murray Challenger bikes, and none on the Sabre.

Anyways, it probaly only really mattered to murray whatever the x code was about.

This incredible "hobby"...

Our comment is NOT a "rhetorical question"... it is a futile attempt to educate those who refuse to be educated and make up their own "facts"... along with endless silly arguments.

As someone who actually was A HISTORICAL CONSULTANT TO MURRAY-OHIO Mfg. (and we have letters to prove it) YEARS– DECADES– before any "list" or internet web sites existed– we certainly ought to be qualified to know. Any "list" of serial numbers from a Western Auto publication is NOT a universally-applicable guide to ANY bicycle MADE BY Murray-Ohio. This is a pure absurd myth– no matter where it is listed or who believes it.

We have all of the B.F. Goodrich bicycle catalogues. We have all of the Murray catalogues– beginning to end. We have all of the Western Auto (Western Flyer) catalogues. We knew the designer.

The bicycle in question is NOT a "Murray Challenger"... nor is it any model in the Murray bicycle line. NOT A MURRAY. It is a B.F. GOODRICH Challenger MADE BY Murray-Ohio Mfg. A Mercury is not a Ford, even though in this case both were brands of FoMoCo. A Pontiac is not a Chevrolet even though both were brands of GM. You can't sell or restore a Pontiac GTO using Chevrolet Malibu SS 396 VIN numbers! A B.F. GOODRICH-branded bicycle is NOT a "Murray."

End of discussion. We will not make any further postings regarding these matters.

Leon Dixon
National Bicycle History Archive of America
NBHAA.com

 

[Spacecowboy]

Yea, I see, I'm wrong, and you told me exactly how wrong I am.

This incredible "hobby"...

Our comment is NOT a "rhetorical question"... it is a futile attempt to educate those who refuse to be educated and make up their own "facts"... along with endless silly arguments.

As someone who actually was A HISTORICAL CONSULTANT TO MURRAY-OHIO Mfg. (and we have letters to prove it) YEARS– DECADES– before any "list" or internet web sites existed– we certainly ought to be qualified to know. Any "list" of serial numbers from a Western Auto publication is NOT a universally-applicable guide to ANY bicycle MADE BY Murray-Ohio. This is a pure absurd myth– no matter where it is listed or who believes it.

We have all of the B.F. Goodrich bicycle catalogues. We have all of the Murray catalogues– beginning to end. We have all of the Western Auto (Western Flyer) catalogues. We knew the designer.

The bicycle in question is NOT a "Murray Challenger"... nor is it any model in the Murray bicycle line. NOT A MURRAY. It is a B.F. GOODRICH Challenger MADE BY Murray-Ohio Mfg. A Mercury is not a Ford, even though in this case both were brands of FoMoCo. A Pontiac is not a Chevrolet even though both were brands of GM. You can't sell or restore a Pontiac GTO using Chevrolet Malibu SS 396 VIN numbers! A B.F. GOODRICH-branded bicycle is NOT a "Murray."

End of discussion. We will not make any further postings regarding these matters.

Leon Dixon
National Bicycle History Archive of America
NBHAA.com

Who'd thunk it was bait post to pick a fight.

Oh yea, I did.

I'm sorry you feel the need to pick a fight for you and the them by utilizing the "royal we" I'm not charging for the info and therefore I am not yours or the thems competitor.

I actually have not used your service but your reputation proceeds yourself from addressing someone else's post on this site.

Was that in the Murray serial number project thread. I think it was, I just read thru 57 pages of that. Kinda funny how no one has yet pointed out that thread has been hijacked from classic balloners topic by about 40 pages of posts about murray middleweights.

Unfortunately tho, I'm still sharing what I found for free, even tho I paid up for the bike to settle some guy's business affairs.

Personally I wouldn't equate a 37.00 bike to 2450.00 car but whatever.
Them 37 silver dollars would be worth 2400 these days, so you're not that far out.

 

[rustjunkie]

Cool bike, nice save.

You might want to put a washer on the axle nut(s).

 

[Spacecowboy]

Cool bike, nice save.

You might want to put a washer on the axle nut(s).

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It's an is, how is, unfortunately. It'll be parted by monroe swap. Thanks for the compliment, tho the bike will be unsaved shortly.

Thanks for the unlocking the thread and restoring my reply. Dude can have say, but I didn't intend to pick a fight, and I think I carefully and fully explained where I came by the original info in a calm coherent and non-insulting manner.

Since I happened upon those stratoflites, this one gotta go. Thought I'd be nice enough to share what I found since I couldn't find any supporting documentation as to the original build. The galvanized crankarm and the enameled rims, not sure if they're original or not. Maybe someone will sell an ad of it one day but I'm done researching it.

 

[rustjunkie]

It's an is, how is, unfortunately. It'll be parted by monroe swap. Thanks for the compliment, tho the bike will be unsaved shortly.

Thanks for the unlocking the thread and restoring my reply. Dude can have say, but I didn't intend to pick a fight, and I think I carefully and fully explained where I came by the original info in a calm coherent and non-insulting manner.

Since I happened upon those stratoflites, this one gotta go. Thought I'd be nice enough to share what I found since I couldn't find any supporting documentation as to the original build. The galvanized crankarm and the enameled rims, not sure if they're original or not. Maybe someone will sell an ad of it one day but I'm done researching it.

I did not moderate this thread.

 

[partsguy]

It's an is, how is, unfortunately. It'll be parted by monroe swap. Thanks for the compliment, tho the bike will be unsaved shortly.

Thanks for the unlocking the thread and restoring my reply. Dude can have say, but I didn't intend to pick a fight, and I think I carefully and fully explained where I came by the original info in a calm coherent and non-insulting manner.

Since I happened upon those stratoflites, this one gotta go. Thought I'd be nice enough to share what I found since I couldn't find any supporting documentation as to the original build. The galvanized crankarm and the enameled rims, not sure if they're original or not. Maybe someone will sell an ad of it one day but I'm done researching it.

I have heard a lot about Leon Dixon, but not until recently have seen him post much - if they know so much - they can go ahead and post their research for the good of the hobby instead of yelling at people all over the forum. Myself and others spent money and quite a bit of time on gathering research. Then we share the findings freely for the good of others.