Anybody have any thoughts on this bike?


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BLK80SLT

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jul 25, 2017
28
79
59
Earlville, IL, United States
#1
I'm trying to get this bike identified, and am looking for anyone who recognizes certain features like the "A" on the seat tube lug along with the fish mouth stays. I believe It's English, from the 40s or 50s. Accles & Pollock "A", along with serial number 95112 with a 7 below it on the head tube . Nervex professional lugs including the bb with the same serial number on it. No head tube badge holes. Here's a few pics. Any help is very much appreciated.
20181105_103712-1152x2048.jpg
forks3.jpg
frame5_crop_645x929.jpg
frame7.jpg
20181105_222106.jpg
nvx18c.jpg
tube.jpg


20181105_222106.jpg
 

bulldog1935

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jan 21, 2013
3,728
5,372
Bulverde, TX
#2
Stunning work on the fork crown - agree on the Nervex head tube lug.
The right fork lamp boss says it's definitely English

I'm also willing to bet the DT shifter boss is English and will only fit Cyclo - 1951 or later.
If there's a left-side shifter boss, it could be as early as 1951, but more likely later than 1957

That's also a pretty large serial number for any English frame builder, so I think I'd be looking for larger and longer-lived shops.
RR095sr.jpg
 
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BLK80SLT

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jul 25, 2017
28
79
59
Earlville, IL, United States
#3
Stunning work on the fork crown - agree on the Nervex head tube lug.
The right fork lamp boss says it's definitely English

I'm also willing to bet the DT shifter boss is English and will only fit Cyclo - 1951 or later.
If there's a left-side shifter boss, it could be as early as 1951, but more likely later than 1957

That's also a pretty large serial number for any English frame builder, so I think I'd be looking for larger and longer-lived shops.
View attachment 944145
It did have just a right side shifter boss. I had the frame painted, and had him install two new modern bosses.
The restoration is now complete, but I'd like to be able to decal it if I knew what decals to use.
20190108_125044.jpg
 

juvela

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Aug 2, 2014
763
1,069
Playa del Rey, United States
#5
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A & P advert for their KROMO tubeset from near to the time of subject frameset -

de5iz5.jpg


Curious as to crown. EKLA, Haden & Vagner all did models similar to what we have here. EKLA generally marked their name on the underside so would think that eliminates them from consideration.

ogki6h.jpg


11hxste.jpg


Closest Vagner match in me catalogues is the 12+.

34jaw3l.jpg


Do not have any Haden illustrations from this era. Suspect they may turn out to be the maker. One needs to keep in mind that it was common for builders to modify and/or add to frame building bits.

The experts are sure to identify it in due course...

The letter A on the seat lug is telling. IIRC this mark belongs to one of the larger Brit producers but am unable to bring up the name.

As ever, we need to hear from our Professor @MauriceMoss. He is sure to eliminate all doubt.

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BLK80SLT

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jul 25, 2017
28
79
59
Earlville, IL, United States
#7
All great info. Very much appreciated. The person who painted it for me, Andy Muzi from Yellow Jersey, said there were no markings on the frame to identify it as Reynolds 531 or A&P, but he said that means nothing. Only the A&P markings on the steerer tube. I know it weighed just under 4 lbs without the fork, so It's pretty light.
8e614ad7ae576abc2edfd731b69b5a24.jpg
3c7049e4d1fbf4f6761c563f1d2d28d5.jpg
82b267e1b49c8c5c0c16a2dc42f6cc75.jpg


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juvela

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Aug 2, 2014
763
1,069
Playa del Rey, United States
#8
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Thanks very much for the additional information and imagery. ;)

The frame's NERVEX Professioal lugset is pattern nr. 49/162.

Pump pegs appear to be NERVEX as well, item nr. 845.

Have encountered these dropouts previously but do not know maker. Two possibilities might be Brampton & Cyclo.

As am sure you understand having only a drive side shift boss does not necessarily indicate machine came ex-works with single plateau drive. It is more than early enough to consider a manual ("suicide") front mech as possible so it may have been constructed with a two plateau drive train. It does appear sufficiently early that a 4V gear block may have been a possibility (making no claims).

Does the serial which appears on steerer appear on shell as well?

Juy pillar a nice touch.

Brakes appear to be set up without QR...unless I am missing something.

Mounting washer on back side of fork crown is not correct. It is Weinmann item nr. 1056 and is intended for front side of crown. Mounting washer for rear side of crown is item nr. 56.

35lvxw3.jpg

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BLK80SLT

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jul 25, 2017
28
79
59
Earlville, IL, United States
#9
He moved a pump peg closer to accomodate a more modern pump. They were pretty far apart. I also had a left side cable guide added. He used a correct matching piece he had on hand. I believe the rear dropouts are Stallard, as I've determined through research. Neither the front or rear have any markings at all. I never saw the frame with any previous parts so I really don't know how it was originally set up. The brakes were a set I had on hand so I put them on until I decide on what will be permanently installed. I'm deciding between Mafac Racer, or GB Coureur 66. I'm not sure which would be more appropriate. I'm certainly not restoring it to original, but if I can use some more correct parts, I will.
The serial number is on the bottom of the Nervex shell as well as the steerer tube. If someone would recognize the pattern of that serial number, it would be a huge part of the puzzle solved. Andy at Yellow Jersey said it was most likely done by a smaller Artisan in 1950s England, but he couldn't say for sure who. I replaced that front brake seating pad about a week ago. Nice catch though.

20190207_142629.jpg

20190207_145918.jpg 20190207_151703.jpg
 
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juvela

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Aug 2, 2014
763
1,069
Playa del Rey, United States
#10
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Thanks very much.

The GB Coureur 66 launched 1962 (IIRC!), the MAFAC Racer slightly earlier but have never known exact date.

If you are able to date frame it may help with fittings choices.

BTW - who is the black spectre we see peeking in? :yum:

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BLK80SLT

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jul 25, 2017
28
79
59
Earlville, IL, United States
#11
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Thanks very much.

The GB Coureur 66 launched 1962 (IIRC!), the MAFAC Racer slightly earlier but have never known exact date.

If you are able to date frame it may help with fittings choices.

BTW - who is the black spectre we see peeking in? :yum:

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That would be Buddy. He's one of my five strays that I've kept that people have left on my property over the years. I live on a farm and for some reason people feel It's a good idea to abandon their cats out in the country. I have three inside that no longer ever go out, and two more outside farm cats that never come inside. They never leave my property though and have heated beds on my deck and in one of my barns. Why should they leave?

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juvela

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Aug 2, 2014
763
1,069
Playa del Rey, United States
#15
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Hello again paws XXVIII,

You mentioned in another thread that shell is threaded righthand on both sides.

Wondering what thread you determined it to be and what was used for your build.

The Francolam catalogue of 1958 shows NERVEX shells as offered in BSC and metric only. (IT, CH & 26TPI and not mentioned)

Possible that builder used a metric shell thst got mixed in the BSC bin or maybe was "just using up what was to hand."

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One detail found slightly surprising is the absence of reinforcement given to seat binder ears. Typically, when one gets to workmnship of this calibre the builder will either "float" some brass onto the backside of the ears or else braze in a cylinder to give them support. (Note the deformation shown in the bare metal image of the seat lug.)

By the late 1970's this situation was dealt with by the employment of investment cast lugs on frames of this quality.

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Be bend Ventoux?

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WRT dating - currently thinking a window of 1955-60.

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Readers: there is another discussion thread on the frame in the British forum retrobike -

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=392481&p=2902782&hilit=stallard#p2902782

[membership not required to read posts or view images]

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All best to our buddy Buddy & friends :hearteyes:

BTW - they may wish to read or post in this thread:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/lets-see-your-cat.107917/

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BLK80SLT

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jul 25, 2017
28
79
59
Earlville, IL, United States
#16
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Hello again paws XXVIII,

You mentioned in another thread that shell is threaded righthand on both sides.

Wondering what thread you determined it to be and what was used for your build.

The Francolam catalogue of 1958 shows NERVEX shells as offered in BSC and metric only. (IT, CH & 26TPI and not mentioned)

Possible that builder used a metric shell thst got mixed in the BSC bin or maybe was "just using up what was to hand."

---

One detail found slightly surprising is the absence of reinforcement given to seat binder ears. Typically, when one gets to workmnship of this calibre the builder will either "float" some brass onto the backside of the ears or else braze in a cylinder to give them support. (Note the deformation shown in the bare metal image of the seat lug.)

By the late 1970's this situation was dealt with by the employment of investment cast lugs on frames of this quality.

---

Be bend Ventoux?

---

WRT dating - currently thinking a window of 1955-60.

---

Readers: there is another discussion thread on the frame in the British forum retrobike -

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=392481&p=2902782&hilit=stallard#p2902782

[membership not required to read posts or view images]

---

All best to our buddy Buddy & friends eyes:

BTW - they may wish to read or post in this thread:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/lets-see-your-cat.107917/

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I don't recall why I was thinking it was right hand thread both sides. It is not. LH on the ds and RH on the nds. English thread.

I'm not sure what the seatpost clamp might be missing. It seems to work fine, and doesn't appear inadequate to me. I think he cleaned it up somewhat before painting it.
4c25790cde17017ec5e4a54a9bff2d6a.jpg


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juvela

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Aug 2, 2014
763
1,069
Playa del Rey, United States
#18
I don't recall why I was thinking it was right hand thread both sides. It is not. LH on the ds and RH on the nds. English thread.

I'm not sure what the seatpost clamp might be missing. It seems to work fine, and doesn't appear inadequate to me. I think he cleaned it up somewhat before painting it.
View attachment 953138

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Did not intend to suggest anything "missing" from "seat post clamp."

Attempted unsuccessfully to explain something about construction practices.

Apologies for any misunderstanding.

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juvela

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Aug 2, 2014
763
1,069
Playa del Rey, United States
#20
What does "Be bend Ventoux?" mean?

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Within the context of handlebars "bend" is Brit terminology for pattern shape as in "Maes", "Randonneur" or "all-rounder." These patterns would be termed bends. Since you assembled the cycle with a GB stem and a GB bar with the "map of Britain" I am thinking it appears to be the GB Ventoux bend.

34s5ljb.jpg


qqpq3o.jpg


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Regarding your statement of the shell being right hand threaded on both sides, it appears in the second post on this page -

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/vi...sid=4f62b334e5ebc58e3625df54ed089689&start=10

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Winnie is a cutie :hearteyes:

What a beautiful coat she has!

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