Dating an Early Schwinn Admiral

[New Mexico Brant]

I've seen that account but if memory serves the company wasn't even formed until Oct 1895. I know orders were taken but I suspect the very first production bikes didn't leave until after the first of the year. Again, Ignaz being the master promoter probably let on that bikes were flowing in '95 but other than a few pre-production machines I highly doubt it.

But how can you arbitrarily come to that “Jan. 1st conclusion” after different reporters, who physically toured the plant, reported differently? It is hard to disagree with primary source documentation from the period. It wasn’t Arnold, Schwinn saying it, it was actual trade writers who at that time were very snarky and pointed out manufacturers who made false claims.

Sure, in the late 19th century manufacturers certainly embellished the facts with : “thousands of units sold!” But this isn’t what I am sourcing.

 

[Cooper S.]

Or maybe they were manufacturing mostly private label/jobber bikes?

Thank you Brant for opening a can of worms for a period that doesn't seem to have much info (1900-mid 1910's). I have been very intrigued with this period probably because information seems scarce. Most of the online available literature covers motorized modes of transportation. I assume moto's were the new hot item and bikes were no longer for adults. A thorough examination of construction techniques similar to the teens/twenties moto bikes would really be interesting, ie. tubing sizes, bridge sizes, & joinery techniques.

If Schwinn were one of the largest manufacturers and almost none of their bikes survived perhaps they have different (non-schwinn) badges on them?

Sorry for hijacking this thread but the opportunity arose. If a new thread needs to be made let's do it!

Rick

We need @barneyguey to answer this for us

 

[Freqman1]

But how can you arbitrarily come to that “Jan. 1st conclusion” after different reporters, who physically toured the plant, reported differently? It is hard to disagree with primary source documentation from the period. It wasn’t Arnold, Schwinn saying it, it was actual trade writers who at that time were very snarky and pointed out manufacturers who made false claims.

Sure, in the late 19th century manufacturers certainly embellished the facts with : “thousands of units sold!” But this isn’t what I am sourcing.

Brant my comment was based on the articles I’ve read. I’d be happy to see some contemporary reporting that supports this.

 

[Freqman1]

Please see post #14. After reading this I'm still doubtful any production bikes were actually produced in 1895. They hadn't even named the bikes until the first or second week of Dec. The Dec 17, 1897 article says they "were seen at the '96 show for the first time". Do you have lit that supports production bikes being built/delivered in '95?

Ca. 1896 Schwinn "The World" Men's | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933

So what was the difference between the model 1 and the model 2 ? They appear to be the same bike.

thecabe.com

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

OK, I like the lively discussion of what Ignaz might have manufactured and sold 128 years ago! LOL, that's the kind of stuff that fuels us old guys.

I would be the first to agree that Ignaz might have taken an optimistic Carrol Shelby, or Barnum and Bailey marketing approach. Heck even today companies use social media to inflate and promote their brands. Just look at how electric vehicles are being marketed today in spite of lack of battery performance, lack of battery raw materials, battery manufacturing, and few charging facilities. Where is the charging infrastructure going to come from? Smoke and Mirrors are still common marketing tools.

It's just a guess, but I would think that some of the discrepancies might be due to overlap in production numbers between "bikes that Arnold, Schwinn built" (for other distributors/jobbers/retailers, just look at all the different head badges used), versus the production numbers for "bikes that Arnold, Schwinn actually "head badged" and retailed through its own distribution system".

The modern era of Schwinn's (only Schwinn's sold through Franchised/Authorized) distribution did not begin until the 1950's. Until that change, Arnold, Schwinn sold its products through an alphabet soup distribution system. It would be difficult to know what they counted as a Schwinn "sold unit" for "reporting" purposes. Having worked in the Motorsports Industry, I can assure you they use the same "Smoke and Mirror's" marketing today to present their marketing numbers in a positive manner.

Believe nothing of what you read, and only half of what you see! Is an old proverb, but it's still got a good deal of truth.

John

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

Yes, 28 and 32 spoke front were commonly used for the front wheels. During the early years Schwinn was fond of using 28 spokes; even on his tandems and multi-cycles. Most other firms were using a higher spoke count on their tandems and multi's.

This front hub is a classic "Chicago" barrel style. Schwinn was fond of the Kundtz rims and used them most often. The front rim on the Admiral is a Kundtz, the rear is not.

What I find shocking is the lack of catalogs and literature from the 1900-1910 period. Someone has to have something or know of a catalog somewhere? @sm2501 @Mark Mattei @mike cates , @bobcycles maybe the folks at the New Bremen Museum?

View attachment 1960597

View attachment 1960596

I like the cross-section drawing. Using two pieces "bonded together" makes sense because you can change the grain direction to increase the strength, much like how plywood is assembled. What material is the "in between"? Was it wood, or metal? It was my understanding that many of these rims were made from Maple.

I came very close to riding my uncles vintage track bike with wood rims in 1963, at Kenosha's clay track. I just could not wrap my head around how a wood rim could hold up, "too scary". But then I turned around the next week and rode my then new 1963 Paramount Track bike at Northbrook's track with "wood filled" Schreen Rims.

John

 

[dasberger]

There are currently about half a dozen Schwinn aught-year bikes known to exist (1900-1909) that I know of. I have been documenting them in collections I have visited over the past few years. Most have the serial numbers on the upper left seat mast. No others currently known have this bottom bracket. Also unknown is when Schwinn started putting the serial number on the top left of the seat mast and what year that ends. One collector, with a couple of these bicycle, believes Schwinn hated Pope so much he moved the serial number to mimic Pope (with Pope's, the serial numbers for a time were on the opposite side of seat mast) and was trying do anything possible to torment him. This collector also has a few other thoughts on how Ignaz was "giving Colonel Pope the finger!" A lot of the anger stemmed from the ABC (bicycle trust) and Pope's aggression towards anyone who did not join the trust; and of course the bottom bracket lawsuit.

It would be great to be able add these to the registry... assuming owners are ok with it. It would certainly help fill the large gap we have. Please share in the thread or feel free to pm me info so IO can add to the next update