Help with Red Band Bendix Automatic Kick Back hub, please.

[HerrOtto]

I am trying to do my first rebuild of a Red Band Bendix Automatic kickback hub. The reason I am rebuilding it is, when in low gear, it would make a slight grinding noise and feel. The kickback did work, and when in direct drive, the grinding did not exist. When I disassembled, I did not dismantle the steel and brass discs from the brake arm side , but I did clean and grease everything inside. I even printed out, and followed to a "T", the instructions from Sutherland's Hand book. My problem now after rebuilding it is, it will not go into direct drive. I have taken it apart 3 times but I can't see anything wrong. While assembling, I make sure the brake disc set aligns, the low speed coupling and driving clutch assembly, align. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you
I have cross posted this question on the Schwinn forum.

 

[HerrOtto]

Turns out it was operator error. With the wheel in my vise, when I would kickback to go into direct drive, and then pedal forward, I was expecting it to immediately go into direct drive. That is not the case, it may go a partial revolution still in low then it goes into direct drive.
Unfortunately, in low, the grinding noise/feel is still there. I have read somewhere on this forum, that the grinding noise/feel, may be normal. In any case, I know the externals are cleaned and greased.

 

[coasterbrakejunkie1969]

Turns out it was operator error. With the wheel in my vise, when I would kickback to go into direct drive, and then pedal forward, I was expecting it to immediately go into direct drive. That is not the case, it may go a partial revolution still in low then it goes into direct drive.
Unfortunately, in low, the grinding noise/feel is still there. I have read somewhere on this forum, that the grinding noise/feel, may be normal. In any case, I know the externals are cleaned and greased.

The growl is normal, but it should not be grinding.

 

[AS-1]

Turns out it was operator error. With the wheel in my vise, when I would kickback to go into direct drive, and then pedal forward, I was expecting it to immediately go into direct drive. That is not the case, it may go a partial revolution still in low then it goes into direct drive.
Unfortunately, in low, the grinding noise/feel is still there. I have read somewhere on this forum, that the grinding noise/feel, may be normal. In any case, I know the externals are cleaned and greased.

At the very end of the reassembly process, you were advised to back off the adjusting cone sun gear approximately 1/3 of a turn. Try backing it off about a 1/2 of a turn and see what happens.

 

[HerrOtto]

AS-1, are you saying that once I adjust the cone so there is no play, you recommend I back it off 1/2 turn?

 

[AS-1]

AS-1, are you saying that once I adjust the cone so there is no play, you recommend I back it off 1/2 turn?

Yes! And don't be shy. If it wants a little more, do it. John, of Schwinn Sales West had to beat it into my head, the old hubs are not Shimano. They need a little free play. It's kind of like tuning a 2 bbl. carburetor. Wing it.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

Yes! And don't be shy. If it wants a little more, do it. John, of Schwinn Sales West had to beat it into my head, the old hubs are not Shimano. They need a little free play. It's kind of like tuning a 2 bbl. carburetor. Wing it.

@AS-1 LOL, Beat it into my head! Kit, did it help any?

All "Ball bearings" do need a little free play. The lower the machining quality the more "free play" required. As you know, Campy/Dura Ace are high quality and do not need much if any. The machining on (any of the four different) two speed Bendix hubs is pretty crude IMO. On the original manual Multi Speed, the original red band automatic with brake disc's, and the later yellow band with brake shoes will make a growling noise when it low gear because that's when the planet and sun gears are working. When you shift to high gear (direct drive) they are not working/moving and the hub sprocket is turning one to one with the hub. On the overdrive Blue Band hub it's just the opposite. No noise in direct drive (low gear) but they make noise in high gear when the planet and sun gears are working. The cause IMO, is just rough machining, loose tolerances, low quality control. Just run a little freer play, you're not going to hurt it.

When these hubs were brand new, Bendix used a very thick, dense grease. It looked like beeswax. It was awful to dissolve the grease and to clean a hub the first service. My guess is that was one way Bendix made the noisy hubs run a little Quiter. I would just use a very light weight grease, you do not need anything for high temperature, high RPM's, or high loads. Any common automotive front hub grease is now lightweight and will work just fine. For decades we used Lubriplate white grease, or the red/orange Gold Seal bicycle grease without any problems. Now I read horror stories about the need for special greases? Just grease the bearings and a very light coat on the shoes/disc's, do not "pack'em full".

John

 

[AS-1]

Otto, pay attention to John. If anybody on this planet knows Schwinn bikes, it's him.

 

[HerrOtto]

Thanks for the great information.

 

[HerrOtto]

AS-1 , I did as you said twice, and backed out the cone, almost to the point that I was uncomfortable with it. The noise is still there, but now that I know it is considered normal, I am not worried about it. I guess, it could be called more of a growl than a grinding noise. Thank you for your assistance.