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Is this a Schwinn Paramount?
- Thread starter JSchwinn
- Start date
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juvela
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
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thanks for the overly kind words LifesRad
generally do not participate much in Arnie/Inaz discussions as me knowledge/experience with the product line be quite thin as compared to the numerous experts here on the forum
mention made of pump pegs above
while one could state they are designed to accommodate the AFA/AD HOC inflators they are in actuality NERVEX products
the curved peg for the pump head is NERVEX Ref. 846 whilst the pointed companion be Ref.845
AFA products issue from the firm of Etablissements Poutrait-Morin, a catalogue dated 1974 is posted from this company here -
would expect tubing to be eleven tube 531c
if french production they may have "cheated" and employed a NERVOR steerer
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for readers who might wish to pursue Bertin question the person to speak with is "@bertinjim"
he can be contacted by leaving a PM for him over at bikeforums.net or at his Bertin web site -
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thanks for the overly kind words LifesRad
generally do not participate much in Arnie/Inaz discussions as me knowledge/experience with the product line be quite thin as compared to the numerous experts here on the forum
mention made of pump pegs above
while one could state they are designed to accommodate the AFA/AD HOC inflators they are in actuality NERVEX products
the curved peg for the pump head is NERVEX Ref. 846 whilst the pointed companion be Ref.845
AFA products issue from the firm of Etablissements Poutrait-Morin, a catalogue dated 1974 is posted from this company here -
would expect tubing to be eleven tube 531c
if french production they may have "cheated" and employed a NERVOR steerer
---
for readers who might wish to pursue Bertin question the person to speak with is "@bertinjim"
he can be contacted by leaving a PM for him over at bikeforums.net or at his Bertin web site -
-----
Last edited:
juvela
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
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note subject frame's double chainstay stop
this is a helpful dating aid
both Juy & NERVEX offered this fitting
the NERVEX is Ref. 872 or 872bis
given caliber of frameset and presence of Juy endset it is likely to be intended for the Juy 543 gear mech:
the companion front mech at this time may well have been one of the Juy manual ("suicide") front models such as the Competition or Randonneur serie
the frame's Juy dropout set is a variation of the model Competition Ref. 934 935 made without gear hanger, introduced about 1951; if fork ends a match they shall be Ref. 932 933
here is a manufacturer illustration of the model with gear hanger, do not have a catalogue illustration for the variant without gear hanger
have never seen a Paramount fitted with Juy ends and mechs but that certainly does not mean none were ever produced given that customers could order framesets/cycles bespoke
our Paramount experts are sure to know...
@ccdc.1 will definitely be able to enlighten
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presence of Campag R/NR headset -
think this to be a klinker as a great many cycles were produced with Campag gear ensembles and non-Campag headsets whilst precious few to none with Campag headsets and non-Campag gear ensembles
TTBOMK Campag never produced a dual cable rear gear mech
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Geminiani suggestion -
there never was a Geminiani bicycle company or factory
all machines bearing the name were contract produced
they came from several makers; by far the greatest fraction issued from MICMO (Gitane, Helyett, Roger Riviere, etc.). some of the high quality models were done by Cizeron. there were also a few produced in Italy; Chiorda was a maker of some of the lower end examples.
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note subject frame's double chainstay stop
this is a helpful dating aid
both Juy & NERVEX offered this fitting
the NERVEX is Ref. 872 or 872bis
given caliber of frameset and presence of Juy endset it is likely to be intended for the Juy 543 gear mech:
the companion front mech at this time may well have been one of the Juy manual ("suicide") front models such as the Competition or Randonneur serie
the frame's Juy dropout set is a variation of the model Competition Ref. 934 935 made without gear hanger, introduced about 1951; if fork ends a match they shall be Ref. 932 933
here is a manufacturer illustration of the model with gear hanger, do not have a catalogue illustration for the variant without gear hanger
have never seen a Paramount fitted with Juy ends and mechs but that certainly does not mean none were ever produced given that customers could order framesets/cycles bespoke
our Paramount experts are sure to know...
@ccdc.1 will definitely be able to enlighten
---
presence of Campag R/NR headset -
think this to be a klinker as a great many cycles were produced with Campag gear ensembles and non-Campag headsets whilst precious few to none with Campag headsets and non-Campag gear ensembles
TTBOMK Campag never produced a dual cable rear gear mech
---
Geminiani suggestion -
there never was a Geminiani bicycle company or factory
all machines bearing the name were contract produced
they came from several makers; by far the greatest fraction issued from MICMO (Gitane, Helyett, Roger Riviere, etc.). some of the high quality models were done by Cizeron. there were also a few produced in Italy; Chiorda was a maker of some of the lower end examples.
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ccdc.1
Finally riding a big boys bike
Since I have been summoned....
I think all evidence points to 'not a Paramount' but a serial number will likely be the only confirmation, (or french-threading).
There were a few Paramounts in the 1950s with Simplex rear dropouts, but the other details don't agree (seat stay caps too long, headbadge hole locations, pump pegs, fork bend...). The double cable rear stop is a likely 'tell' as well (two of the Simplex-shod Paramounts have a single cable stop of a different style than this one). While Simplex made a double cable rear derailleur as Juvela accurately illustrates, there is also the Huret Special Tour de France Louison Bobet model, also from the 1950s (I believe the very first/prototype Campagnolo GS rear was a double-cable derailleur, but never in production). In fact, there were also Louison Bobet bikes (made in France by Mercier?), and some of the details on this frame look similar to this Louison Bobet bike: https://classiclightweights.net/france/louison-bobet/1955-louison-bobet-tour-de-france-bicycle/
Do check out this link...you may have your answer (note that the serial number on the Louison Bobet is stamped into the headbadge, so if there is no serial number on the frame this would lead one to believe...).
juvela
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
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thanks so much for your usual outstanding information! ; ^. ]]]
am thinking this is about as far as we can go with the information provided by the OP's photos...
unless they hear back from seller with additional data
assuming until information to the contrary that tubing diameters & threading shall turn out to be metric
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thanks so much for your usual outstanding information! ; ^. ]]]
am thinking this is about as far as we can go with the information provided by the OP's photos...
unless they hear back from seller with additional data
assuming until information to the contrary that tubing diameters & threading shall turn out to be metric
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ccdc.1
Finally riding a big boys bike
The chatter on this Frame ID has died off but if the OP has any updated info, it helps to fine-tune our abilities to ID unknowns. Also, not highlighted earlier, but it appears the frameset might have parts of an early/rare Campagnolo Gran Sport headset, with the engraved spacer (not a Super Record spacer) and the domed top nut...possibly also the bottom cup. The top cup is a later Record version. If the supposition that it is a French frame is correct, then likely a French-threaded headset (not as desirable, generally, but still hard to find).
