Oh no! Sears Chief Parted Out (!) on the bay

[miller32]

You know...if I had ever thought there would be this much bad flack on parting this bike out...I would have never put it out there. I am not going to get rich from this auction. I am not out to get big bucks....if I was...then we would have but some ridiculous reserve on each part. If these bikes are so rare....so so rare....then wouldn’t it make sense that I might only get one or two bidders on the bike parts. There are people looking for parts!!!

How is one to truly enjoy a hobby/sport when we have so many in the sidelines waiting to pounce on the next guy or gal that does something they don’t like. I don’t understand why people have to be so cruel. I am not understanding why we have to ridicule other people’s choices. I TRULY don’t understand why we would judge bikes that have been pieced together by calling it a whatchamacallit or a donee. We might as well park and put up all our pieced together bikes because they will only be considered as rejects.

I am not understanding how we can sit behind our computers and throw out uncalled for criticism towards someone else. Why do that? What if one day a bike shows up on Ebay being parted out and you finally get a tank, or fender, or a light that you need. Are you going to step away a not bid??? Because you know....as it has been stated....your bike will never be pure or original...it will be a whatchamacallit.

I went to an auction the other day....and a gentlemen came up to look at this antique bike that was going to be sold. We talked about it for a bit...and then he began to tell me all the things wrong with the bike. He said....it wasn’t what he expected and he had absolutely no interest in it. He trash talked the bike. Then he proceeded to say that he was not in any way going to bid on the bike. Well...guess what! I stayed for the bidding...hoping to throw a couple bids in....and low and behold....the guy that belittled the bike and said he was not going to bid....was in the very back corner throwing his hand up at big numbers. We all noticed. Why was he in the corner???? I think we all know.

This is sad....it is sad that posts like these even get started in the first place. Do we want to talk about bikes....or enjoy the trash that gets thrown around. I much rather be talking something about bikes. Whether you believe it or not....this bike or its parts is not out to make me rich. And nine times out of ten...it will probably go to completing another Chief and I am more than thrilled about that. This Chief has made a stir....and I am sorry to all those on the Cabe that are here to be educated...or here to investigate....or become a part of a special group of people trying to enjoy this hobby. It is a shame some people don’t know when to stop. By the way....if anyone cares...I have an Evinrude that needs some parts to finish. I thought selling some of my other bikes and parts would help me to maybe get this thing restored. Guess what though....this Evinrude is rare....and I'm probably not going to find one part I need....but let me tell you.....I will be jumping for joy and would be willing to bend over backwards if someone would part out their Evinrude so that I might finish mine....and I sure as heck won't judge the guy that sells one to help me! But....God help the person that parts out an Evinrude...because they will be banished and destroyed on a forum like this by a few. So...I will like others...wait and wait...for that super rare chance to come up! Maybe one day in the future I will have the parts...and I can have the whatchamacallit EVINRUDE...restored from mismatched parts only to be declared as not a true Evinrude because of those parts!

I am totally shocked.....
A person's character is being judge for selling parts.
Sorry guys...I hope it ends soon...

 

[RMS37]

First of all;

Who cares? Really!

If you scroll back over the last few posts you will be able to note there are several people who obviously care about the subject so you must have meant to say “Really! I don’t care” but I suppose you actually do or you wouldn’t have posted on this thread.

Parting out bikes and how it helps or hurts the “Hobby” is obviously a hot button topic, perhaps the hottest relevant topic (that is not meant to put down the Anemone thing) that comes up for discussion on this site.

The Hobby is ultimately made up of the people who choose to consider they belong to it and while there are common denominators that align us, there are bound to be areas where we disagree. I see the preservation vs. modification debate really as a spectrum of choice and it is unlikely there is anyone here who represents or lives at either end of that spectrum. Ultimately we will all find a place we draw our line in the sand and that is likely to be different from the exact location of any other collector’s line.

The point is justly made that one is legally open to do whatever they want with their personal belonging and it is true that virtually all of the bicycles in America are privately owned. That rational obviously does not quiet those who believe that it hurts the Hobby as they see it by depleting a nonrenewable resource and arguably goes against the philosophical basis for collecting. Telling people who are expressing their beliefs about the subject that a person can do what they want with what is theirs is a rhetorical fob-off that does nothing to calm the waters.

While it is generally known that any bike will bring more in parts than it will sold as a whole, it is not true that a bike has to be sold in parts to be sold. No rational person wants to loose money when they decide to sell a bike but in many cases if they truly look at what they paid for the bike, a small profit would move the bike quickly. Even if the magic number that makes a bike go away is less than what an owner invested, the option is open to anyone who holds the opinion to keep bikes together sacred to take the loss for the team. Generally this is hard to do in light of what we all know the parts will be worth to the next owner but living up to your principles often comes at some cost.

Back to the other side of the coin, it is also true that we can guess at ulterior motives and judge the actions of others but we have no way of actually living in another person’s brain to be able to truthfully say we know the motives that drive them. It is possible that all the “helping the hobby” talk is subterfuge covering a primary profit motivation in one case and actually the primary motivation for another person who has offered a bike in parts. Unfortunately, as popular as judgementalism is, it never goes down well whether it fall square on target of is wildly off base.

It is also obviously true that besides the futility of assigning motives as we see them to others, there would be almost no one in this hobby if it meant you could not amend a bike with parts from a fallen comrade, realistically more than 99% of the hobby is based on restoration and modification of incomplete original bikes. To that end the sellers are providing the fuel that keeps the Hobby lumbering along and to throw them out of the temple would turn this into a much smaller and different hobby.

I don’t think taking up a cease fire on this subject is going to happen and I think that as a group this will continue to be one of the subjects that divide us and our hobby. Obviously we can only police our own actions when it comes to staying true to our principles but I can fully understand the desire and need of those who feel the hobby is being hurt by other people's actions to speak their mind on this topic or others that come up.

The challenge is not to resolve the issue, which is impossible, but to find a way to accept what is; which will probably only mean learning to live in the hobby under the barrage of all the lengthy diatribes on this subject. In the end, if you part bikes you will have to get a thick skin to the protests, if you are vocal about your belief they shouldn’t be parted, make sure your actions are in line with your beliefs.

 

[Rusty Ol' Rogue]

Phil-
Your most recent essay on this subject gets the highest of marks. It's obvious that you have given the pros and cons of this argument much thought, and also because you were successfully able to hide any particular bias regarding the ethical dilemma that many of us find ourselves in at one time or another. I think you were very accurate in describing both the emotionalism and the non-emotionalism involved with parting out old bicycles. It's always good to be reminded how important it is to stick by our principles regardless of how difficult it is at times ...or not. I guess that just depends on who you are.

 

[RMS37]

Thanks Dave, I don’t know if my post really takes the discussion anywhere new that we haven’t all considered already but I think over time I have realized that I am not so much on the fence regarding this issue (I don’t have that good of a sense of balance) but straddling the fence with a foot planted on either side. The amount of weight I put on either foot is based on the specifics of the individual situation rather than an overall controlling philosophy. I imagine most of us really do see things and act in that manner but somewhere in the middle ground, on a specific bike, the divisional line will appear and people will take sides.

 

[bricycle]

I understand both sides of this issue. Like what has already been said, there is NO right stand on this, it is all a simple matter of personal opinion. This Gentleman can do what ever he wants with his bike, yes, HIS bike. Bottom line is: If you choose to be upset by EITHER stand.....it is just that... It is YOUR choice. YOU youself choose to be or not to be upset by everything you encounter.

 

[slick]

Not to stir the pot anymore but aren't these parts the same as any other Davis framed bike such as an HD bike/Indian?? I have a Davis frame that looks exactly identical to this one..
In my opinion, i think these parts will be completing other Davis framed bikes, not necessarily Chief bikes. If they were going on a Chief, i'm sure they would be skyrocketing in price. Or it just shows that there are not many Chiefs out there? And i think we all know where the badge is going....in a display case. I'm just saying......

 

[RMS37]

I understand both sides of this issue. Like what has already been said, there is NO right stand on this, it is all a simple matter of personal opinion. This Gentleman can do what ever he wants with his bike, yes, HIS bike. Bottom line is: If you choose to be upset by EITHER stand.....it is just that... It is YOUR choice. YOU youself choose to be or not to be upset by everything you encounter.

I think that trivializes the conflict somewhat. Once you are no longer upset by anything you encounter you are either a guru or dead.

Much of the reason for the heated argument on this topic is that while there is not likely a higher power judging this toward the end of some refereed right or wrong, the action of parting bikes has real consequences (as would not having parted bikes to supply our perceived parts needs) and depending on how you regard those outcomes clearly can make the actions right or wrong with respect to your opinion and philosophical beliefs on the subject.


A person can stifle their feelings and chose not to voice their opinion or otherwise become involved in the debate around any issue but I don’t think it just comes down to choice about the having those underlying feelings and the emotions they generate when they exist on a level that is meaningful to us.

This hot-button topic and the consequences, real or imagined, pale in comparison to many issues that are literally life and death issues but the mechanism that brings them to the surface is the same and very much a part of being human and meaningfully belonging in a society.

 

[Freqman1]

Whoa Phil I think I just hit a whole new level of consciousness!

 

[Balloontyre]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply's Phil, do consider a delay in punching in that card, there is a lot of contribution that would be missed.
Perhaps a better choice of words in my last post should have been " why care" yes I care and likely most folks that read or comment care, and have a side of the issue they stand.
Your right on in saying it's situational many times in how a person would react to the parting of a nice old bike.

What would more accurately describe my puzzlement is how this particular thread evolved after the seller identifies himself ( A CABE member) after seeing this thread about his ebay parts for sale. The seller explains his reason the parts are being sold. Noble gesture on the sellers part I thought, since he does not owe an explanation to anyone. He was not soliciting opinions, simply explains his deal. Then the thread continues to trash and speculate. I guess that is what prompted my reply.

There is truth, that reciprocity and unspoken respectful behavior between collectors or hobbyists is commonly expected, no question.

Bicycle Bell, what a great handle and cleaver. Yes, collecting for preservation is among dozens of great reasons to enjoy old bikes. It is a hobby and every participant is right in the enjoyment of their hobby. I personally operate from a students perspective to the bicycle hobby, and enjoy the details of history, mechanics, and construction relating to bikes. Hopefully at times I offer some useful contribution to fellow hobbyist, I certainly enjoy on topic technical discussion.
This open forum public to the world discussion is new to me, and I don;t know exactly what protocol is acceptable. Just this topic of parting personal property and then being flogged after explanation and identification as a Cabe member confused me. Member = acceptance in my book.

It's great to have found this site from the perspective of learning and studying about old bikes, and meeting a few like minded people that dig old machines.

Best,
Ivo

 

[Gary Mc]

Phil, Love your posts on this thread as you eloquently laid out the dilemmas of this heated subject. I've had my say on my opinion so not going to repost it but I seriously think it's time for us all to move on and respect a decision a fellow member, miller32 made to part this bike whether we like the decision or not. It was not the only "rare" bike parted out this week including on the CABE nor will it be the last so we are being very unfair to him. Personally how I feel about the subject is my dilemma & my problem and one I will continue to struggle with, no one else's, certainly not miller32's. Let's lay off him & move this discussion to General Discussion if necessary as miller32 obviously cares about this hobby as we all do. This is my final 2 cents on this thread.