tacochris
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Proof is in the puddin....or so they say. Beautiful work!
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Re-cover A Saddle Quick & Cheap.
- Thread starter the tinker
- Start date
the tinker
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Your work is great, but the name of the thread is "Cheap and Quick." Veg tan leather is not cheap or as easy to find for the backyard bike guy as an old leather chair. There's no comparison between the type of bike you are working on and the ones in this thread. I post this for the average back-yard guy that just wants to do a saddle, cheap and quick, and with a little patience it will come out nice. The veg tan leather work takes practice and much skill. It has to be dyed, treated and most difficult of all, sewn . That alone is a tough skill . Below is a saddle I recently did for a CABER. He came to my house and I recovered this saddle in a half hour. That included taking off the old covering. It's Cheap and Quick, no special tools or skills required. A hunk of leather off an old chair, and little bit of patience on a Saturday afternoon. What I think you should do is, the next saddle you re-cover, start a thread showing the entire process. From start to finish. A step by step tutorial of exactly how you do it, presented in a way the average person could do it at home.
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tacochris
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
I will second this with even more detail:
100% of the bikes I collect and rebuild are patina bikes, some nice survivors and some really not nice rust buckets, but at the end of the day, I dont want a seat thats so nice it stands out like a sore thumb. So for that reason and also for coin-sake, I recover from old couches and chairs and such because the worn nature of the furniture leather seems to blend in with the era of the bike and the overall "use" of it.
Doing what Stradalite is doing is amazing and anyone would be proud to be able to have that skill, as would I....but I fear if I did, the seat would surely outshine the bike and look "too nice" if that makes sense.
the tinker
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
I'll go one step further. If I attempted to do what Stradalite is doing, my saddles would look like sh*t.
tacochris
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
haha....we're all thinking it anyway. ...about ourselves I mean.
the tinker
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Bricycle brings up a good point, "ruined many a good saddle." I've screwed a few up, but I've never ruined any of them. I just start over, learning from my mistakes. You may ruin your piece of leather or fabric by not cutting it big enough. [ this only becomes evident when pulling your tabs of covering over the pan's edges] Make double sure your piece of material is large enough. I've never ruined a saddle. I just do it over. Here's a saddle I will do over this winter.
Looks good, I got the leather tight. What's wrong with it? Look closely. See that tiny scratch a couple inches up, on the right? The leather was too old and is starting to rot. I've run into this before, and it only becomes apparent when stretching the leather over the seat pan. look at how the top finish starts separating when pulled tight, especially at the horn. Give your leather a couple real hard pulls before starting your project. If it starts to separate or easily rip, it's too old or too thin.
If you have an old piece of leather, even if it's "new" leather, that has been sitting around for years, it deteriorates if stored incorrectly. I know a few things about leather. During high school, I was in a work program. I got out of school at 1:00 and worked as a leather cutter in a small printing and novelty company. They made small things out of leather, and I cut them, by hand, using a maul . For over two years, I worked with half hides over large maple cutting blocks. Cutting by hand, using sharp metal dies. There's a machine called a "clicker" that does this job now. The shop I worked in had some very ancient machinery, that I know later got scrapped. A leather company would give their left nut to have it now. That was back in 1966, when old bikes and old machinery was viewed as "scrap metal, to get rid of. I'm only familiar with two types of hides. Horse, cattle. Chrome tan and veg tan. Veg tan is generally cow hide, and usually is the most expensive. It's thicker, stronger, and extremely elastic, and workable when wet. It's used for strong belts, horse saddles and harnesses. It accepts tooling and is easily recognizable. When you see intricate designs cut and stamped into leather, it's veg tan. The tanning process of veg tan is the oldest. Sometime, way back when, primitive man found out that animal hides could be used for clothing, they found ways to preserve [tan] it. Trial and error, the oldest teacher. It got it's name from the vegetable compounds used in this process. In Europe, Northern Asia, and North America, bark from oak trees was primarily used. It's still used today, but has been mostly replaced by other less costly compounds. Producing vegetable tan leather is a long and costly process. It uses lots of fresh water and creates hazardous waste. As to be expected, China and Mexico are big producers of tanned leather. It's less costly, but, inferior to leather produced in the United States. If you have worked with new hides, as I once did, you easily recognize "good" leather. Chrome tan leather uses chemicals in the tanning process, and is much easier and less costly to make. Your, furniture, jackets, purses and belts are usually chrome tan. Comes in every color imaginable. Different thicknesses, and can embossed to resemble other species hides. The problem with chrome tan is, it does not accept water. It will not form like veg tan. Untreated veg tan would make a poor rain coat. When wet, veg tan can be easily pulled, molded and "formed." Chrome tan leather is what it is. Not much you can do to make it more workable. I've found that when it's very warm, it is much easier to work with. Especially on a winter day, as my shop is generally pretty cold. As far as my "criteria" for my free leather? I carry a razor knife in my truck and car. If I see an old chair on the curb, that looks like it's leather, I first stop and see if the home owner is out. If I'm alone, I hack into the chair and see if it's truly leather, and not "pleather" or some other man made fabric. I've had homeowners come out and start yelling at me when they see me cutting into the chair that they placed out for the garbage guy. Sometimes I have gone back later to do my "cutting." I've found that leather from chairs is usually perfect for saddles. Sometimes though, it's too thin. Leather jackets are usually made up of smaller pieces of leather. It's generally too thin and is prone to tear when over stretched. I've never found a coat with pieces big enough to do a boy's saddle. One other point, that I thought I had addressed earlier, but apparently I didn't make clear enough. This isn't for the finicky. This post was intended for the "weekend" hobbyist that wants to do something by themselves, that's easy and definitely not costly. It's for saddles generally produced after 1939. Veg tan leather was generally not used on any saddles after this year. Chrome tan, oilcloth and leather look-a -likes are used on the 40's and 50's saddles, and generally have two pans, and are the easiest to do. This JC. Higgins saddle I covered is a two pan saddle.
The leather is used, so they are imperfections in the finish, but these are for riders, not show bikes.
I purposely used a worn piece of couch leather on this saddle, positioning the leather on it to resemble normal saddle wear.
The pre-war saddles are often single pan, and have sewn edges and seams. I haven't tackled any of those yet, but I plan to. I'll keep you folks posted. On those, I will use veg tan leather. Sewing is a whole new ball game. In the meantime, any of you folks that do the older saddles, and aren't a "hack' like me, please give us a step by step tutorial, with lots of photos. Share your knowledge. If you don't want to use leather, Ann's Fabrics and Hobby lobby have a large selection of other materials. Keep having fun! On a side note, after the leather company, I went to work at National Lead Co, at the old Halsted plant on Chicago's far south side. They made lead paint and lead products there since 1906 or 07. That's a story in it's self.
Looks good, I got the leather tight. What's wrong with it? Look closely. See that tiny scratch a couple inches up, on the right? The leather was too old and is starting to rot. I've run into this before, and it only becomes apparent when stretching the leather over the seat pan. look at how the top finish starts separating when pulled tight, especially at the horn. Give your leather a couple real hard pulls before starting your project. If it starts to separate or easily rip, it's too old or too thin.
If you have an old piece of leather, even if it's "new" leather, that has been sitting around for years, it deteriorates if stored incorrectly. I know a few things about leather. During high school, I was in a work program. I got out of school at 1:00 and worked as a leather cutter in a small printing and novelty company. They made small things out of leather, and I cut them, by hand, using a maul . For over two years, I worked with half hides over large maple cutting blocks. Cutting by hand, using sharp metal dies. There's a machine called a "clicker" that does this job now. The shop I worked in had some very ancient machinery, that I know later got scrapped. A leather company would give their left nut to have it now. That was back in 1966, when old bikes and old machinery was viewed as "scrap metal, to get rid of. I'm only familiar with two types of hides. Horse, cattle. Chrome tan and veg tan. Veg tan is generally cow hide, and usually is the most expensive. It's thicker, stronger, and extremely elastic, and workable when wet. It's used for strong belts, horse saddles and harnesses. It accepts tooling and is easily recognizable. When you see intricate designs cut and stamped into leather, it's veg tan. The tanning process of veg tan is the oldest. Sometime, way back when, primitive man found out that animal hides could be used for clothing, they found ways to preserve [tan] it. Trial and error, the oldest teacher. It got it's name from the vegetable compounds used in this process. In Europe, Northern Asia, and North America, bark from oak trees was primarily used. It's still used today, but has been mostly replaced by other less costly compounds. Producing vegetable tan leather is a long and costly process. It uses lots of fresh water and creates hazardous waste. As to be expected, China and Mexico are big producers of tanned leather. It's less costly, but, inferior to leather produced in the United States. If you have worked with new hides, as I once did, you easily recognize "good" leather. Chrome tan leather uses chemicals in the tanning process, and is much easier and less costly to make. Your, furniture, jackets, purses and belts are usually chrome tan. Comes in every color imaginable. Different thicknesses, and can embossed to resemble other species hides. The problem with chrome tan is, it does not accept water. It will not form like veg tan. Untreated veg tan would make a poor rain coat. When wet, veg tan can be easily pulled, molded and "formed." Chrome tan leather is what it is. Not much you can do to make it more workable. I've found that when it's very warm, it is much easier to work with. Especially on a winter day, as my shop is generally pretty cold. As far as my "criteria" for my free leather? I carry a razor knife in my truck and car. If I see an old chair on the curb, that looks like it's leather, I first stop and see if the home owner is out. If I'm alone, I hack into the chair and see if it's truly leather, and not "pleather" or some other man made fabric. I've had homeowners come out and start yelling at me when they see me cutting into the chair that they placed out for the garbage guy. Sometimes I have gone back later to do my "cutting." I've found that leather from chairs is usually perfect for saddles. Sometimes though, it's too thin. Leather jackets are usually made up of smaller pieces of leather. It's generally too thin and is prone to tear when over stretched. I've never found a coat with pieces big enough to do a boy's saddle. One other point, that I thought I had addressed earlier, but apparently I didn't make clear enough. This isn't for the finicky. This post was intended for the "weekend" hobbyist that wants to do something by themselves, that's easy and definitely not costly. It's for saddles generally produced after 1939. Veg tan leather was generally not used on any saddles after this year. Chrome tan, oilcloth and leather look-a -likes are used on the 40's and 50's saddles, and generally have two pans, and are the easiest to do. This JC. Higgins saddle I covered is a two pan saddle.
The leather is used, so they are imperfections in the finish, but these are for riders, not show bikes.
I purposely used a worn piece of couch leather on this saddle, positioning the leather on it to resemble normal saddle wear.
The pre-war saddles are often single pan, and have sewn edges and seams. I haven't tackled any of those yet, but I plan to. I'll keep you folks posted. On those, I will use veg tan leather. Sewing is a whole new ball game. In the meantime, any of you folks that do the older saddles, and aren't a "hack' like me, please give us a step by step tutorial, with lots of photos. Share your knowledge. If you don't want to use leather, Ann's Fabrics and Hobby lobby have a large selection of other materials. Keep having fun! On a side note, after the leather company, I went to work at National Lead Co, at the old Halsted plant on Chicago's far south side. They made lead paint and lead products there since 1906 or 07. That's a story in it's self.
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the tinker
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Here's a half cow hide of veg tan leather I have. You can see the difference between chrome tan that's used on coats and furniture and veg tan. This is good for horse saddles, harnesses, belts and saddle bags. Tools excellent.
The narrow part on right the is from the neck of the cow.
Notice the clip marks around the edges from the tanning process, where it was hung and stretched. The right hand of the picture is the top of the hide and the thickest, strongest part. Excellent for belts. I'm going to cut four belts from this today. The left side of this photo is the thinnest part of the hide. This hide would have to be "split" or skived to use on a bicycle saddle, as it's too thick.
The narrow part on right the is from the neck of the cow.
Notice the clip marks around the edges from the tanning process, where it was hung and stretched. The right hand of the picture is the top of the hide and the thickest, strongest part. Excellent for belts. I'm going to cut four belts from this today. The left side of this photo is the thinnest part of the hide. This hide would have to be "split" or skived to use on a bicycle saddle, as it's too thick.
the tinker
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
I'll include this in this thread. This leather would make dynamite saddle bags for your bike, as it won't collapse like thin leather or other materials. I made two strap cutters. One for heavy leather and the other for thin straps. The first one is non-adjustable. That's this one here.
I cut six straps, 50 plus inches for belts. I'll stamp designs into them. The first belt was hard to cut. I changed the blade angle and they cut easy after that. I squared off the hide with a straight edge before cutting.
This cutter cost nothing but a blade. Used an old tool box handle and some scrap oak. You can buy a cheap cutter for under 50 bucks for cutting the heavy leather. Here's an adjustable cutter I made from a wood worker's marking gauge. It does not ruin the gauge.
All you're doing is re-making the sliding stop. Cut a slot in it to run the leather through and cut a tiny slot for the blade. Used a hunk of cherry for it, because it's super hard, but doesn't split like oak. The blade is from an Exacto knife .
You can buy small strap cutters for under 50 bucks, but this one's free. The small strap cutter is handy for cutting small straps, any size, and consistent, out of light leather from a quarter inch to inch and a half. Straps for hanging tool, and saddle bags? Fringe lace for side bags? This has bicycle applications, if you think about it. Made these cutters a couple weeks back. Trying to keep busy during this covid crap. Have fun folks!
I cut six straps, 50 plus inches for belts. I'll stamp designs into them. The first belt was hard to cut. I changed the blade angle and they cut easy after that. I squared off the hide with a straight edge before cutting.
This cutter cost nothing but a blade. Used an old tool box handle and some scrap oak. You can buy a cheap cutter for under 50 bucks for cutting the heavy leather. Here's an adjustable cutter I made from a wood worker's marking gauge. It does not ruin the gauge.
All you're doing is re-making the sliding stop. Cut a slot in it to run the leather through and cut a tiny slot for the blade. Used a hunk of cherry for it, because it's super hard, but doesn't split like oak. The blade is from an Exacto knife .
You can buy small strap cutters for under 50 bucks, but this one's free. The small strap cutter is handy for cutting small straps, any size, and consistent, out of light leather from a quarter inch to inch and a half. Straps for hanging tool, and saddle bags? Fringe lace for side bags? This has bicycle applications, if you think about it. Made these cutters a couple weeks back. Trying to keep busy during this covid crap. Have fun folks!
dasberger
I live for the CABE
Thanks for the inspiration Tinker... Here is my first adventure in seat restoration.... It was cheap but wasn't particularly quick. This seat was on my '41 Excelsior and with the oil cloth turning to dust I had to do something. The seat in general is really crusty so I figured it would be a good one to sacrifice in the name of learning by doing.
Where I started
Oil cloth and old padding stripped. I was careful to salvage the old pad to trace
Had some 1/8' foam (randomly green like the original) laying around the warehouse so I glued up 4 layers... next time I'll just buy 1/2" but this is the cheap and quick thread!
Then I hit all the rust with a wire brush, washed and dried everything
Sprayed with Rust Reformer. Then painted with Rustoleum enamel
Ready to glue.. Weld wood contact cement... gotta get it right the first time when the foam and pan go together... it is not forgiving once stuck
Then I contoured the foam to the pan with some 80 grit
Ready for leather
I got a decent calf skin for $20 at Tandy and looks like I can get 3-4 saddles out of it... I did try to find a curbside couch but no luck...
For the leather I used the 3m spray adhesive. I made a stencil out of newspaper to contain the overspray so I could glue the top but stretch edges by hand without getting sticky
I then worked the leather from center of pan to edges getting it nice and smooth
Next I stapled the leather to a piece of plywood working around the edges getting it tight. I let it sit in the sun for 30 mins and took the staples out. Then I trimmed excess and glued the leather to the bottom of the pan... No pic of this step due to adhesive on the hands
And done... not too shabby. Learned a lot and could certainly do it quicker in warmer weather next time.
Where I started
Oil cloth and old padding stripped. I was careful to salvage the old pad to trace
Had some 1/8' foam (randomly green like the original) laying around the warehouse so I glued up 4 layers... next time I'll just buy 1/2" but this is the cheap and quick thread!
Then I hit all the rust with a wire brush, washed and dried everything
Sprayed with Rust Reformer. Then painted with Rustoleum enamel
Ready to glue.. Weld wood contact cement... gotta get it right the first time when the foam and pan go together... it is not forgiving once stuck
Then I contoured the foam to the pan with some 80 grit
Ready for leather
I got a decent calf skin for $20 at Tandy and looks like I can get 3-4 saddles out of it... I did try to find a curbside couch but no luck...
For the leather I used the 3m spray adhesive. I made a stencil out of newspaper to contain the overspray so I could glue the top but stretch edges by hand without getting sticky
I then worked the leather from center of pan to edges getting it nice and smooth
Next I stapled the leather to a piece of plywood working around the edges getting it tight. I let it sit in the sun for 30 mins and took the staples out. Then I trimmed excess and glued the leather to the bottom of the pan... No pic of this step due to adhesive on the hands
And done... not too shabby. Learned a lot and could certainly do it quicker in warmer weather next time.
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