Removing cycletruck handlebar stem

[BikesandGyros]

Hi,

I am new to the site and still navigating my way around so if this isn't the right spot to dig further into this issue, let me know. I have a 1939 cycletruck I am working on restoring. I am having a struggle separating the handlebar stem from the fork. The bolt that goes down to the razor piece has been missing for decades and the razor piece has rusted to the stem. I put a borescope down the hole where the bolt goes to see what I was dealing with and have attached a picture. Curious what others have done to loosen stems. I've tried copious amounts of various penetrating oils and some heat but not to any extremes yet. The frame is currently at a friends who runs an auto repair shop. He has a convective heater coil and ratcheting tools which is my next step.

Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bruce

 

[Freqman1]

Have you used the search feature?

 

[GTs58]

I have to ask. Do you know the correct way to remove a stem? Have you ever removed one?

 

[BikesandGyros]

I have not. I am welcome to hearing the procedure. I figured the issue was just that the area the nut went into was rusted to the frame and freeing that up would allow me to separate the stem from the fork.

Thanks,
Bruce

 

[GTs58]

Here are a couple to show you what they look like and what holds them in the fork. You can't just loosen or remove the bolt, the wedge needs to be tapped down after the bolt is loosened. Normal practice is untread the bolt maybe three threads and then tap the bolt down. Try to twist the bars. Loosen the bolt a little more and tap it down. this drives the wedge down. If after repeated attempts is when it gets fun if nothing moves.

Here's how to start when removing a stem. You'll be lucky if nothing is bound or rusted up.

 

[BikesandGyros]

Thanks for the reply. Well, I guess I did know how to remove it but I never assume anything especially when I'm trying to free up a 86 year old part. I might not have given all the details on this thread but the bolt is gone. Been missing since I can remember. and somehow the bike seemed to not need it. Probably because at some point the wedge piece rusted to the stem? That's the only explanation I can think of based on what I can see with the borescope and how frozen it is. My dad did some clean up on it sometime in the early 80's I believe. He painted it Aeronca yellow (leftover cowling paint from restoring his 1944 L-3 Defender WW2 observation plane. A lot of things in his shop were painted Aeronca yellow ). He sprayed the handlebars with silver paint and I'm assuming somehow in that project the bolt didn't get reattached. We did try after soaking it with various penetrating oils to stick a 5/16" rod into the shaft and try to tap on it to get it to loosen with no results.

Appreciate the info. The suggestion earlier on the thread to actually do a search yielded some interesting ideas for removing rusted parts. If given that, there's a better mousetrap, I'm all ears

Bruce

 

[volksboy57]

get another bolt and put it down there and do the above steps.

 

[WillWork4Parts]

Post in thread 'What bike did you work on today?' https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/what-bike-did-you-work-on-today.161390/post-1815882

That's the last stuck stem that I dealt with. If you can't tap the wedge down, yours may be suffering from the same situation where the wedge is bottomed against the step in the fork steer tube.

Please, post pictures of your entire bike as well as a close up focused on the stem and steer tube. This will help us help you understand what may be the specific case with your bike.

There is no getting around it though, if you can't free the wedge from the stem, any substantial rotation with a leverage bar can either twist and bend the stem or the steer tube if they are seized and eventually one of those parts will shear. You can try installing a leverage bar in place of the handlebars and that may help to break it loose, just be aware of how much force you are using and know the difference between over torquing and deforming the metal vs seeing the stem shaft turn separately from the steer tube. Once you see movement between the two, that's when it's good to add more penetrating oil, step away for a moment, and when you come back to it, be prepared to sweat while twisting and pulling. These old parts can be quite seized and it will take some effort to remove after being together that many years, but it's worth it considering the price of replacing both the fork and the stem...and not having the new parts match the bike afterwards.

I would keep at it with penetrating oil(in stem hole and around stem and steer tube) and tapping on the wedge with a correct bolt(5/16" x 24tpi) or threaded rod(if the wedge still has threads) and have patience. Use heat as a last resort, since that will destroy your finish and patina...plus, with a stem that long, it will be hard to get heat all the way to the wedge where it's needed. Same thing when using heat, if the first couple of attempts don't free it up, walk away, let it cool, then try again.

As a best and worst case scenario, you could lop the stem off at the top to where the headset can be removed and fork taken out of the bike to be worked on separately. This will open up the stem hole to take a larger punch for getting the wedge knocked down and give you direct access to heat the steer tube without ruining the finish where it will show. If you cut the stem, be sure to leave as much material as you can sticking up, so that a pipe wrench will take purchase. Chuck the fork blades in a bench vise with something to protect the finish, heat the steer tube, tap the wedge down, and then try twisting the cut off stem with a pipe wrench. Repeat that a couple times with a cooling in between and you should be able to save the fork that way. The stems are expensive, but easier to source than a cycle Truck specific fork.

Again, please have some patience with these old parts by tapping on the wedge before you start in with a flame, cutting, or a pipe wrench.

I love seeing these old parts and family projects saved and I hope this helps. Perhaps you might even have an old bike mechanic near you with a similar mindset that will trade their labor for you bringing over their favorite six pack?!? Or case of whatever their favorite beverage might be. Ha

 

[BikesandGyros]

WW4P,
Thanks for the reply. On your note you said to post pictures of the entire bike and the steer tube. I did post a picture of it on the All things Schwinn portal on this site here is a shot of it again. I'm still a rookie on the site so I'm probably not the getting things perfect in relaying info. These were taken a few years ago at a bike event. The other shot already posted in this thread is a borescope down the tube where the bolt goes. It shows the end piece pretty much fused to the wall of the tube. What I am trying at the moment is soaking the entire tube in a rust remover product. I plugged the hole where the bolt goes. flipped the bike upside-down and poured the rust remover through the small hole in the top of the fork tube. I haven't kept track well but it takes 6 to 8 oz is my guess to fill it to the point where it backs up through tiny little drain hole so I'm assuming ( which always gets you in trouble) that the rust remover has filled everything inside the head tube and is going all the way to the fused spot where the bolt would go in on both sides so it should really be getting a soaking. I have pulled out the stopper and flushed out the solution a couple of times and there's a lot of muck coming out which you can see in the container on the floor. That's actually solution from the 2nd flush. # 1 was a real doozy. I'm now on number 3. I can't get any movement on the stem yet. I also have a very long Phillips screwdriver that I cut the head off that I've been using to go into the tube and rap on the area shown on the borescope picture. There was a suggestion that I get another bolt with the same thread pattern and try to into see if I can lodge but although I can't see the threads on the borescope picture, I did run an all thread down there past the fused point with no luck. As you would say, patience. I have no clue if this approach is a good one but from what I've seen including the link you posted, the MacGyver playbook is a big one.

 

[buickmike]

If the position of the wedge is closer to fender attachment point ,I could drill that fender screw hole out. The casting is pretty tough. A new 3/8 drill and they even sell long ones. I look at it like I don't want to ruin the stem ,or leave it like it is and keep riding it. Any way, once the screw area is opened up , you can get a new perspective of the condition of the expander. The close fit of expander and stem won't allow oil to work it's way into seams