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Reproduction Troxel Toolbox Saddle?

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Something the hobby clearly does not understand to this day is that there were two major generations/versions of Troxel "Toolbox" saddles:
VERSION #1... (early) Different length springs; "toolbox' clamshell used fabric to hinge; offered in different-colors of piping; covered in either multi-layer coated fabrics OR leather.
VERSION #2... (late) Different length of springs; "toolbox" clamshell used actual metal floor and hinge; outer covering usually genuine leather.

There were other versions that branched out from here, depending on what bicycle makers and wholesale-distributors requested. And there were smaller juvenile versions– most of which were not upholstered in genuine leather.

While shown in patent illustrations with a ruby-cut glass reflector on the leather tail clasp for the clamshell, this is not accurate. The actual reflector normally used was what myself and Jim Bailey named (in the 1970s when I had him restore one of mine) as the "raspberry" due to its texture and appearance (yes this is where the name used today came from).

There were other versions of "Toolbox" saddles custom-ordered for various bicycles. D.P. Harris had their own rather awkward version that featured what I call "deep springs." Of course the mated look totally negated the streamlined theme, but DPH didn't care.

There were also what I call the "Fantail" streamlined Troxels of the same period. These looked like Toolbox saddles but had no clamshell compartment.

The "Toolbox" saddle on my 1938 Silver King M-138 (what I named "Wingbar") is genuine leather. (see attached photo from 40 years ago)

The "Toolbox" saddle on my 1936 Silver King M-1 is genuine leather.

The "Toolbox" saddle on my 1930s CCM Flyte (see attached photo from 35 years ago) is genuine leather (somewhat shriveled).

As for the Troxel company, whatever remains today is descended from what Richard Timms (who I met and spoke with many times) rescued and moved to San Diego when the original company sold out.

I corresponded with Troxel on an on-going basis from the 1960s until the end of production in Tennessee. I managed to save many of our letters (see attachments)

National Bicycle History Archive of America has most of the original Troxel information and brochures/literature from the early beginnings up until the end of the manufacturing operation in TN.

At one time, we also had the most parts. Troxel sent me most of their outdated old stock back in the 1970s. Until we were robbed about 22 years ago, we had the world's largest collection of Toolbox saddles and other NOS obsolete Troxel parts.

Leon Dixon
National Bicycle History Archive of America
NBHAA.com

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Very interesting information. The saddle I have is what you called 'fantail'. There's an overhang of material at the back of the saddle sort of like a skirt. Since it's on a girls frame I'm assuming it was the girls version without the toolbox. Thanks for your reply.
 
The Fall37/Winter38 Montgomery Wards, Hawthorne Twin-Bar, boys model came stock with the non toolbox version of the Troxel Streamlined saddle.

A53637D2-5307-4561-ABFA-0CA58711656E.jpeg


3EC13E1E-6EEF-48E9-8336-E2FC371FD811.jpeg


6B77087B-613D-4E7A-B929-6CCEF58167D8.jpeg


8354EA1A-A44B-40B5-857D-C0E3B8D208F6.jpeg


8BBCB6E2-EA62-4929-8BF6-2E58697BEF5D.jpeg

It’s a very comfortable seat, with those long cylindrical coil springs.
 
The Fall37/Winter38 Montgomery Wards, Hawthorne Twin-Bar, boys model came stock with the non toolbox version of the Troxel Streamlined saddle.

View attachment 1842752

View attachment 1842753

View attachment 1842754

View attachment 1842755

View attachment 1842757
It’s a very comfortable seat, with those long cylindrical coil springs.
Great photos and catalog pages! Mine looks more of a canvas type material with possibly a black vinyl/leather covering. I'm really not sure because it's in bad condition. Photo of the bike is on my last post. Thanks again.
 
Yep!
Most of the ones I’ve seen, were that leatherette/canvas fabric material.
It didn’t stand the test of time very well.
I’ve got a Hawthorne Duralumin Airflow, that has the canvas type toolbox saddle on it, and it is pretty ugly.
 
Something the hobby clearly does not understand to this day is that there were two major generations/versions of Troxel "Toolbox" saddles:
VERSION #1... (early) Different length springs; "toolbox' clamshell used fabric to hinge; offered in different-colors of piping; covered in either multi-layer coated fabrics OR leather.
VERSION #2... (late) Different length of springs; "toolbox" clamshell used actual metal floor and hinge; outer covering usually genuine leather.

There were other versions that branched out from here, depending on what bicycle makers and wholesale-distributors requested. And there were smaller juvenile versions– most of which were not upholstered in genuine leather.

While shown in patent illustrations with a ruby-cut glass reflector on the leather tail clasp for the clamshell, this is not accurate. The actual reflector normally used was what myself and Jim Bailey named (in the 1970s when I had him restore one of mine) as the "raspberry" due to its texture and appearance (yes this is where the name used today came from).
Good info @NBHAA (Leon). There are two patents that Troxel was granted for toolbox saddles. We did discuss them both in this Saddle Development Thread.

1936 Faulhaber design with a fabric hinge:
1582341792010-png.png


And the 1937 Hayes design with a metal hinge:
1582332717072-png.png


@Balloonatic restored saddle:
1582332655815-png.png



Another pic I collected of a toolbox saddle. Not sure where this pic came from but a much different Troxel stamp.
troxel toolbox saddle reference.jpg


The reflectors in these pics look faceted with a berry-like reflective surface below that.

When I hear the term "raspberry reflector" I always think of this design:
1684889681207.png


Am I not using the terms correctly?
 
I got mine! The seat was expensive, the reupholstering was almost more! Please do not reproduce these!

View attachment 1842640

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Hello,

The Troxel saddle shown here was not intended for the Silver King which did not use the deep spring version. This version was intended for D.P Harris Rollfast and some H.P. Snyder lines. It was also used on certain Manton & Smith bicycles, but not from the factory on the Silver King line. Also the carrier on this bicycle was not for the Silver King, but rather, for the Hawthorne Duralium.

Leon Dixon
National Bicycle History Archive of America
(NBHAA.com)
 
Good info @NBHAA (Leon). There are two patents that Troxel was granted for toolbox saddles. We did discuss them both in this Saddle Development Thread.

1936 Faulhaber design with a fabric hinge:
View attachment 1842903

And the 1937 Hayes design with a metal hinge:
View attachment 1842904

@Balloonatic restored saddle:
View attachment 1842905


Another pic I collected of a toolbox saddle. Not sure where this pic came from but a much different Troxel stamp.
View attachment 1842895

The reflectors in these pics look faceted with a berry-like reflective surface below that.

When I hear the term "raspberry reflector" I always think of this design:
View attachment 1842901

Am I not using the terms correctly?
Hello,

Nope. This hobby tends to take terms and begin applying them to any and everything. Good example: "coke-bottle grip" (there was once a clear understanding of what this meant). But with people today too young to have seen an original Coca-Cola bottle, well? This one went wild and like the term "pre-war" and "all-original" is off the chain and applied on a whim.

Having invented the "raspberry reflector" term along with Jim Bailey when he was restoring one of my saddles, I can assure you that the Persons-style, Rollfast-style bumpy reflector certainly was not what was referenced or intended when the term was coined.

Also, the reflector shown on the saddle here is not a "raspberry reflector" but rather, a prismatic ruby cut with bubbly fresnelling.

The glass "raspberry reflector" indeed looked like and felt like a raspberry looks and feels– only harder. That's why we named it such.

Next time I'm digging in the reflectors collections, I'll try to remember to take a photo of a "raspberry reflector."

Leon Dixon
National Bicycle History Archive of America
(NBHAA.com)
 
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