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Types of Schwinn frame construction

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No what you said is "irresponsible and historically inaccurate". I've been looking at it more since my last post. Resistance welding has a lot of different forms. Flash welding actually does use an arc. The arc forms between the pieces and heats up the tips of them until they are molten. Then the machine smashes the molten parts together and they are "forged" together. Flash should have been a hint at the arc....

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But other forms of resistance welding do not use this method and no arc is formed. Like making a tube from a sheet of metal and Seam welding it
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Resistance Welding
 
So making the bottom bracket shell is probably considered seam welding and attaching the tubes to the BB shell is probably considered "butt flash welding".
 
So making the bottom bracket shell is probably considered seam welding and attaching the tubes to the BB shell is probably considered "butt flash welding".
If I said something that you view as inappropriate, I apologize. I had no intention of saying anything offensive.
 
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So making the bottom bracket shell is probably considered seam welding and attaching the tubes to the BB shell is probably considered "butt flash welding".
Hopefully John will come back and tie off the loose ends.

The bottom bracket started as a piece of flat stock. The tube and stay nipples were pressed in place while is was lying flat. The edge joint flanges were bent into place and the piece was bent into round and the flanges were welded together. It could have been spotted together, stitched together, arced together, electrically charged and pressed together, the melting of the metal making a weld. The stays and tubes were then jigged into position and welded to the bottom bracket much the same way you do with simple arc welding, a contact on one piece and an electrode, in this case the other piece being electrified, the resulting heat welding to parts together. It was straight forward, nothing fancy. Like any good major manufacturer, the guys on the floor were constantly looking for ways to improve the process. John knows and understands the evolution of the process from the early days until the 80s. I always defer to his experience and knowledge.
 
Wow, First let me say thanks for all of the interest and contributions in this thread. I had no idea how many of you have a dormant interest is this old "technical stuff".

Like I stated earlier, "For Better or Worse" Schwinn is best known for the millions of bicycles they built and sold using some form of the Electro Forged frame technology. Every kid in America either rode a Schwinn, or wanted to ride a Schwinn in the 1960's and 70's. I would guess that this decade also aligns when we Caber's were all kids out riding the wheels off of our bicycles, and the only parental guidance required was to be "home by dark". I personally think the "Schwinn" term Electro Forged is some advertising or marketing spin. When I think Forge, I see a Blacksmith pumping air into his fire and hammering out a new set of horseshoes. But it's hard to argue that the process and the term has been around for a good long time. I was surprised to see that the Captain Kangaroo and Schwinn was barely using the term in 1967. I have a quality Schwinn wall board from the 1970's and it makes no mention of the Electro Forged parts hanging on it. So, although Schwinn might have used Resistance/Butt Welding in the 1940's they surely did not use the term in marketing until much later. It was a technology that grew over time at Schwinn.

I think we are getting hung up on the wording and the technical welding differences and missing the bigger point. Schwinn needed a way to quickly build a high-quality frame "that had the looks" of the Filet Brazed frames they had built their reputation on for the past fifty years. The frame design had to use a method that lowered the labor cost to produce. Electrical Resistance welding was being refined and being adapted to production applications. But the Schwinn coined term Electro Forged was a bigger deal than "just a method to weld metal together". The electronic welding method was an important piece of the puzzle but saving production labor time and cutting costs to allow this technology to be used on lower price point models was the focus. It was designed to be used on bicycles that retailed for under $40. Mitering tubes at different angles and to fit different diameter tubing is an expensive step and requires skilled labor. Schwinn designed the "two piece/welded" head tube in a way that allowed the top and down tubes to be joined (Butt Welded with electronic resistance welding) by a straight Butt Joint. This eliminated the mitering step and indexing steps. Money saved when you're building a million frames every year.

If you look at the many frame examples made from the early 1940's all the way up to the close of the Chicago Factory in 1983 the Resistance Butt Weld frame construction changed and evolved. The early bikes had maybe two or three tubes joined by the Butt-Welding process, and by the 1970's almost every tube was electronically joined. For example, the Cantilever bars eventually were spot/resistance welded to the down tube and also at the seat tubes. The early Electro Forged frames might have only the seat tube, and head tube done by the resistance welding and the cantilever bars still done by hand with brazing (hidden under the tubes to save clean up time). Look at the changes in the pressed nipples on the early 1940's EF bottom bracket shells and compare them to the 1970's frames. The later parts place the welded joints further away from the stress points. It's still an EF type of design, but it was more refined. Schwinn had the best equipped metal Test Laboratory in the bicycle business, and it was "on site". They did their own Rockwell hardness tests on the bearing cups and cones they made. They built a machine that a bicycle frame would be bolt to and then put through pedal load cycles. If the frame broke, they went back to the design and made the necessary changes. It was very important "financially" to make frames that "Did Not Break" because Schwinn offered a Lifetime Replacement Guaranty. The Electro Forged frames, parts, and welding had to pass stringent testing before the design was released into a new model.

The Bottom Bracket shells, the head tubes, and the fork ends were all parts that had to be designed and specially made to work with the new resistance welding process. So, just my opinion, but when we say Electro Forged, we are talking about a frame system that had custom designed parts made specifically to work in concert with the new welding process.

Thanks again, John
 
Wow, First let me say thanks for all of the interest and contributions in this thread. I had no idea how many of you have a dormant interest is this old "technical stuff".

Like I stated earlier, "For Better or Worse" Schwinn is best known for the millions of bicycles they built and sold using some form of the Electro Forged frame technology. Every kid in America either rode a Schwinn, or wanted to ride a Schwinn in the 1960's and 70's. I would guess that this decade also aligns when we Caber's were all kids out riding the wheels off of our bicycles, and the only parental guidance required was to be "home by dark". I personally think the "Schwinn" term Electro Forged is some advertising or marketing spin. When I think Forge, I see a Blacksmith pumping air into his fire and hammering out a new set of horseshoes. But it's hard to argue that the process and the term has been around for a good long time. I was surprised to see that the Captain Kangaroo and Schwinn was barely using the term in 1967. I have a quality Schwinn wall board from the 1970's and it makes no mention of the Electro Forged parts hanging on it. So, although Schwinn might have used Resistance/Butt Welding in the 1940's they surely did not use the term in marketing until much later. It was a technology that grew over time at Schwinn.

I think we are getting hung up on the wording and the technical welding differences and missing the bigger point. Schwinn needed a way to quickly build a high-quality frame "that had the looks" of the Filet Brazed frames they had built their reputation on for the past fifty years. The frame design had to use a method that lowered the labor cost to produce. Electrical Resistance welding was being refined and being adapted to production applications. But the Schwinn coined term Electro Forged was a bigger deal than "just a method to weld metal together". The electronic welding method was an important piece of the puzzle but saving production labor time and cutting costs to allow this technology to be used on lower price point models was the focus. It was designed to be used on bicycles that retailed for under $40. Mitering tubes at different angles and to fit different diameter tubing is an expensive step and requires skilled labor. Schwinn designed the "two piece/welded" head tube in a way that allowed the top and down tubes to be joined (Butt Welded with electronic resistance welding) by a straight Butt Joint. This eliminated the mitering step and indexing steps. Money saved when you're building a million frames every year.

If you look at the many frame examples made from the early 1940's all the way up to the close of the Chicago Factory in 1983 the Resistance Butt Weld frame construction changed and evolved. The early bikes had maybe two or three tubes joined by the Butt-Welding process, and by the 1970's almost every tube was electronically joined. For example, the Cantilever bars eventually were spot/resistance welded to the down tube and also at the seat tubes. The early Electro Forged frames might have only the seat tube, and head tube done by the resistance welding and the cantilever bars still done by hand with brazing (hidden under the tubes to save clean up time). Look at the changes in the pressed nipples on the early 1940's EF bottom bracket shells and compare them to the 1970's frames. The later parts place the welded joints further away from the stress points. It's still an EF type of design, but it was more refined. Schwinn had the best equipped metal Test Laboratory in the bicycle business, and it was "on site". They did their own Rockwell hardness tests on the bearing cups and cones they made. They built a machine that a bicycle frame would be bolt to and then put through pedal load cycles. If the frame broke, they went back to the design and made the necessary changes. It was very important "financially" to make frames that "Did Not Break" because Schwinn offered a Lifetime Replacement Guaranty. The Electro Forged frames, parts, and welding had to pass stringent testing before the design was released into a new model.

The Bottom Bracket shells, the head tubes, and the fork ends were all parts that had to be designed and specially made to work with the new resistance welding process. So, just my opinion, but when we say Electro Forged, we are talking about a frame system that had custom designed parts made specifically to work in concert with the new welding process.

Thanks again, John
1710997640331.jpeg


1710997673735.jpeg


1710997724971.jpeg

(added per request from John)
 
If this doesn't belong here we can delete it.

Add ons,
Things on a Cycletruck. The 1/4-20 nut on the top tube of a CT-2 is brazed on along with the dropstand nuts on the forks and also the tube for the basket braces. Have to check but I think the brace on the head tube and the lower sign tube is too.
Couple other schwinns I've had have brazed on item too.
 

Thanks @AS-1 for adding these photos to this thread for me. The three parts are Salesmen's samples that were handed out at a sales meeting when Schwinn introduced the new frame building that would be done at the "then new" Greenville, MS factory. They show the way that that the new single piece head tube was investment cast. The lugs are crisp and clean, no clean up or fitting was required as this was a precision cast part. Just insert the "prepared frame tube", heat it up to melt the brazing slug, and it was ready for paint.

The bottom bracket is interesting in that it has two steel threaded sleeves inserted "after" the case part was made. The sleeves have four large spot welds (two on each side) securing them to the cast part. The casting is the same as the head tube.

The seat lug is also investment cast. But it has a steel "crush tube" added inside the area where the seat post clamp bolt would be placed. The steel stiffener (crush tube) is TIG welded to the cast lug to hold the very small part in place during the frame building and heating process. After the frame welding was completed, "All of the TIG Welding" was cut away when they slotted the back of the seat tube to allow the clamp bolt to tighten the seat post.

These are visual samples of what I call the Uni-Lug design that was used on every "steel framed" bike built in Greenville. This was to be the next generation of Schwinn's "after Electro Forged" production ended.

John
 
If this doesn't belong here we can delete it.

Add ons,
Things on a Cycletruck. The 1/4-20 nut on the top tube of a CT-2 is brazed on along with the dropstand nuts on the forks and also the tube for the basket braces. Have to check but I think the brace on the head tube and the lower sign tube is too.
Couple other schwinns I've had have brazed on item too.

If it's about a Schwinn frame, it's all good here.

Is this a question, or comment? Millions of Schwinn's were built with some or full brazing. It would be too costly to tool up and build a handfull of low volume Cycle Trucks, Paramount Tandems, etc. The brazing was the fastest, cheapest way to do custom items in low volume. The brazing process does not produce "hot metal splatter" (from electronic welding) and is easier/faster to clean up for painting. Again, it was all about production, faster, easier, less time. The forged forks were outsourced by Schwinn. Schwinn purchased the forged legs (without the threaded stem) from Ashtabula Bow and Socket Company. Schwinn then welded their own stem onto the forged legs. The weld was by Butt Welding/Resistance welding/ or Schwinn's term Electro Forged. It was easier to just braze the Cycle Truck kickstand bosses onto the forged legs. Cycle Truck sales volume was a drop in the ocean compared to Schwinn's annual volume, so they made the best choice of how they did certain processes by the cost versus volume factor.

John
 
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