Schwinn and the Sturmey-Archer SW.

[Oilit]

Spoke length does not change so long as you are going from a cross-4 pattern to another cross-4 pattern. Raleigh ran 40 x4 at that time. The Schwinn wheels generally 36 x4 for the lightweights. The x4 pattern reduces the effect of the hub flange on the spoke length needed. With x2 or x3 wheels, you'd probably need a different length spoke.

The one saving grace is the SW debacle took place in the time before extensive mass tort litigation. The SW's failure mode can be particularly dangerous because it can suddenly "let go". If the rider is standing on the pedals to sprint or climb up a steep hill, that often means a trip over the handlebars and then to the hospital. If the rider is lucky, there will be a feeling of looseness in the drive train just before the hub cams out of gear. This offers a chance to lay off the pressure and allow the hub to cam out without disrupting the rider too much. I've been lucky enough that every time an SW has failed on me, I noticed that brief "loose" feeling in the drive train and laid off the pedals just before it let go. I'm sure there are SW hubs still out there that work properly, but I just will not trust one of these hubs given the failures I've experienced with them. I've tried to make them work (short of adding the springs mentioned on Sheldon's site), but I've given up on them.

The cam-out can happen from so many different causes that these hubs can be very frustrating. If the oil is too thick (including if it thickens due to cold weather), the pawls will not seat properly. Old gunk in the hubs also prevents the pawls from seating. If the pawls are worn, they may not engage properly even if they seat. If the cog is changed to a larger cog, the increased force can exacerbate a borderline hub where the pawls may or may not seat properly.

I generally remove the SW hubs by unscrewing the spoke nipples and saving the old spokes, if possible. Sometimes you need a "faded" old spoke to fix a wheel and you don't want a single, shiny spoke on the wheel. Sometimes they're too rusty or damaged to save though. I have no issue re-using old spokes if they're in good shape, especially the Raleigh stainless "R" spokes, which were kind of marvel of durability in their day.

Thanks SirMike! I wanted to hear from someone who actually had some experience with these. I haven't tried mine and what I've read makes me leery. I don't heal as fast as I used to!

 

[WillWork4Parts]

I went through the small stack of Schwinn Reporters that I have for this time period and wanted to make sure I posted these scans here. The one with the red date stamp is the only one I'm sure of the date...the others seemed to be pages 5-7 only without the cover page to date them. Note that the spoke length is brought up for the SW needing spokes 1/32" longer...as far as I'm concerned, that's not enough to order new spokes for. Hopefully I've got these in chronological order.Edited to correct image chronological order!

The pages I thought were paired were not from the same reporter judging by the different front carriers, but the pages had been folded together for many years. The front double hinged carrier wasn't introduced until later, so the above image has the early rack and the 1st gen SW hub with both long axle nuts and indicators on both ends.

No mention of the SW hub was in the reporter(full copy, but not all pages shown here) below but the double hinged front carrier was also introduced as New on the front page of that reporter.

The reporter page scan below could be Sept 58 at the earliest since the new rack is there.

The Reporter scan below happened after the last week in September, but what year...58/59? If someone has the rest of this Reporter with the actual date on the front page, I'd be grateful if you posted that up. That or a scan showing the new hub changes mentioned here as happening "several months ago" would pinpoint when the second Gen SW started being used.

 

[Miq]

In the second reporter above, Keith writes about the SW:

That helps nail down the Schwinn adoption to the month.

 

[Oilit]

In the second reporter above, Keith writes about the SW:
View attachment 2277398
That helps nail down the Schwinn adoption to the month.

I think he's talking about the 2nd generation SW hub. "As indicated previously, the new style hub has a one piece indicator spindle similar to the old AW hub." Going by the catalog scans @WillWork4Parts posted (Post #17), the first generation had the two piece spindle.

 

[SirMike1983]

0.79mm = 1/32"

Considering a standard "size" is 2.0mm increments on spokes today, same length effectively.

 

[Miq]

I think he's talking about the 2nd generation SW hub. "As indicated previously, the new style hub has a one piece indicator spindle similar to the old AW hub." Going by the catalog scans @WillWork4Parts posted (Post #17), the first generation had the two piece spindle.

Finally looking at these on something bigger than my phone.

If we could determine the date on the first reporter it would give us more info on the adoption of the first SW hubs right?

I’m assuming it says “The SW hub will be used on Schwinn bicycles within the next few weeks”.

 

[WillWork4Parts]

In the second reporter above, Keith writes about the SW:
View attachment 2277398
That helps nail down the Schwinn adoption to the month.

I reordered the last set of scans I posted. Hopefully that makes better sense...I now wish that I had bought the entire collection of 1958 Reporters that I had my hands on while at the Honnapalooza Swap. The guy was set up 2 tables over from me inside the building...I'll run into him again, but who knows if he'll still have them.

 

[GTs58]

Finally looking at these on something bigger than my phone.

If we could determine the date on the first reporter it would give us more info on the adoption of the first SW hubs right?
View attachment 2277450

I’m assuming it says “The SW hub will be used on Schwinn bicycles within the next few weeks”.

That was a 1957 reporter. The Jaguar was new for 1957 so no Jaguars until the late 56 with a few promo's at some dealers in late 1956.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

I went through the small stack of Schwinn Reporters that I have for this time period and wanted to make sure I posted these scans here. The one with the red date stamp is the only one I'm sure of the date...the others seemed to be pages 5-7 only without the cover page to date them. Note that the spoke length is brought up for the SW needing spokes 1/32" longer...as far as I'm concerned, that's not enough to order new spokes for. Hopefully I've got these in chronological order.
View attachment 2277372

View attachment 2277369The pages just above and below are the only ones from the same Reporter.

View attachment 2277370

View attachment 2277368

View attachment 2277371

OK, hopefully I can explain this without confusing it further. I will do it in bullet points.

I have a pretty complete library of vintage Schwinn Reporters. I'm missing two issues for the year 1958. I'm missing Vol. 8 #2 February 1958. I'm also missing Vol.8 #5 May 1958.

In the twelve monthly Schwinn Reporter Issues, they talked about the New Sturmey Archer SW hub.........Six Times in the monthly Service with a Smile Column. This had to be a huge deal to keep hitting the same topic for six different months. You only have five of the articles, and I believe your missing the most important one which was Vol. 8 #8 August 1958. I'll get to that later.

Let's try and put some dates on the Schwinn Reporter service articles you have already posted.

Your first posted picture is either February or May 1958? It starts out saying Raleigh announces new 3-speed hub. LIKELY FEBRUARY

Your second posted picture is Vol. 8 #11 November 1958. It the one with the GoodYear store picture.

Your third posted picture is either February or May 1958. It talks about Repair and Adjustments and has the whole trouble shooting chart. LIKELY MAY

We both agree that the fourth picture is Vol. 8 #7 July 1958. It's the picture of the Schwinn Approved (Steyr?) trigger.

The fifth posted picture is Vol. 8 #9 September 1958. It shows the Florida Police Chief that retired.

The sixth article that is not included in your Sturmey SW Schwinn Reporter collection is from Vol, 8 #8 August 1958.
I'm sorry that I cannot scan and post it for you but will type it and answer any questions about it. August 1958 Service with a Smile by Keith Kingbay on page 5 of the Schwinn Reporter.
CHANGES IN THE STURMEY-ARCHER S-W HUB
Acting in the wake of a considerable number of dealer requests, a number of changes have been made in the Sturmey-Archer S-W hub as now supplied or to be supplied in the near future. Here are the changes: A nut and a Bushing are now used to keep the planet carrier in place. This was formerly held in place by a spring washer which, if loosened up, did not allow the hub to be shifted. Secondly, a one piece indicator spindle will now be used. This will be used for the right side and will be adjusted by bringing the shoulder to the end of the axle while the hub is in "Normal Gear". This, of course, necessitates the change of some parts. The following are the changes and correct part numbers. OLD HUB WITH TWO LONG AXLE NUTS AND A SPLIT INDICATOR, NEW HUB (I have omitted the part numbers) and only listed the description, axle 6", axle 6 1/4", axle nut right, axle nut left, indicator rod left, indicator spindle right side, axle key. The new hub can, of course, be readily identified on a bicycle since it uses only one long nut. There will, however, be no chance for error since the new axle is not drilled through.

No Sturmey-Archer SW pictures, or charts were shown in the Vol. 8 #8 August 1958 Schwinn Reporter, only what I have listed above.

SORRY YOU CHANGED YOUR PHOTO SEQUENCE, BECAUSE NOW IT DOES NOT MATCH MY MONTHS OF PUBLISHING
John

 

[GTs58]

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