Lightest steel road bike frame?

[Andrew Gorman]

I've never been a weight weenie, but also not in the "you gonna ride it or carry it?" camp. I did run across the MASI Volumetria bikes lately- oversized, thin wall tubing like the BMX Schwinns mentioned above, tricky to build and essentially hand made. I don't know where they come in in weight but they were eye opening in the 1970s-

Masi 3V

Type: Collector's racing bike Brand: Masi Model: 3V Collection: Premium Frame height: 57cm (ct) Top Tube: 56cm (cc) Head tube: 14cm Standover: 80.5cm Gearshift: 2x8 Campagnolo Record Shift lever: Campagnolo Syncro Front derailleur: Campagnolo C Record Brakes: Campagnolo Delta Crank: Campagnolo C...

www.derrecyclist.de

 

[bulgie]

agreed.. the question remains..

what is the lightest steel road bike frame

the answer =

columbus sl

Columbus Steel Tubing Timeline – Millfield Velo

www.millfieldvelo.com.au

was
then was columbus max

The Bicycle Info Project :: Columbus tubing chart

but now..

I stand corrected.. Its now

Tange 'Ultimate'

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/worlds-lightest-steel-road-bike

freakin wild!

Those guys are pikers! They claim the frame on this "lightest ever steel frame" weighs 1240 g unpainted.
The Davidson road frame I made for my wife in about 1990 weighed 1111 g painted. (It too was made with the lightest gauge Prestige, which was 0.3 mm at that time. You can't buy bike frame tubing that light anymore, if only because everyone went "oversize". Laurie's has a 1" toptube etc, trad-sized tubes.

It was no wall hanger either. Laurie used to race, won 3 medals at District championships and raced at Natz. She never raced the crazy-light Davidson because it came along after she quit. But she still rode hard, and long miles, with her friends who were mostly all racer or ex-racers. Hundred mile days in the mountains weren't all the time, but definitely a few. It lasted over 15 years before it finally rusted through, perforated the left chainstay at the small end, by the dropout, from her hanging it by the front wheel after it was "ridden hard and put away wet" literally. I consider the experiment a success but I would put a drain hole in the chainstay there next time... (mea culpa)

Lauries bike got written up in Bicycle Guide's "Hot Tubes" section, but they messed up when they said the frame weighs under 3 pounds. That's true but it also weighs under 2.5 lb, which I think is significant and should have been mentioned! They had the frame — I had to send it to them — didn't they weigh it? Amateurs! (I guess there's no such thing as bad publicity... but still!)

Laurie's wasn't even the lightest frame I made at Davidson. I made another one for a smaller adult lady, same basic tube set but everything shorter, for 650a wheels, with "undersized" rear stays, and every thick in the book. I don't remember what it weighed but maybe Bob Freeman remembers. Bob was Bill Davidson's partner and ran the retail shop out front, he was the one who sold the bike. I bet it was around a kilo (1000 g). Or over a half-pound lighter than the "world's lightest steel frame" in that Bike Radar article. Fake news!

 

[AmericanSchwinnfiend]

At the risk of getting in trouble for "getting off topic" I will answer your question/statement. This post/reply is not about a Road Frame.

The Original Sting frames were American made, yes, they were hand made in the Paramount department. They were used by the Team Schwinn BMX professional race team. They were ultra lightweight, hand finished, fillet brazed in butted, ovalized 4130 chrome moly tubing. My son BMX raced a new Sky-Blue painted Sting Frame and it was a great product.

As a Schwinn Sales Representative in Northern California during this time, I was the guy that wrote the parts credits to the 30 Schwinn Dealers for the parts they warranted each month. To my knowledge I never wrote the credit for even one broken "Tange Sting fork" for any reason. They were bullet proof. I cannot say the same for the Ultra Lightweight Sting Frames. Everyone that I saw warranty replaced was cracked in the same place, at where the seat stays were brazed to the very thin seat tube. The thin seat tube metal failed (cracked), not the brazed joint. I took one of the chrome frames I warranty replaced and made it into a "cut-away" frame showing how thin the ovalized tubing was, it was scary thin, but beautifully made. I cut away the head, tube joints, the bottom bracket joints, and the rear fork end joints for this demo frame. I painted the inside of the tubes white and yellow to show the tapered butted tubing. This display frame was displayed at Schwinn Dealerships. in my sales district. I'm sure this display frame is still floating around with the Vintage BMX guys, as my son sold it at one of his swap meets.

John

Those cracks you mentioned were seen on almost every Tri-oval early Sting. The frames didn't flex enough and that point is where it had to flex, so those cracks did develop. I brought mine back to the dealer and He determined that it didn't qualify for replacement. I'm not sure the original forks were even Tange, perhaps a lesser Japanese maker, the issue I saw with the other racers were the drop outs failing because of brittleness, apparently the chroming process does this to steel and that's why a lot of pro track racers requested paint instead of chrome.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

Those cracks you mentioned were seen on almost every Tri-oval early Sting. The frames didn't flex enough and that point is where it had to flex, so those cracks did develop. I brought mine back to the dealer and He determined that it didn't qualify for replacement. I'm not sure the original forks were even Tange, perhaps a lesser Japanese maker, the issue I saw with the other racers were the drop outs failing because of brittleness, apparently the chroming process does this to steel and that's why a lot of pro track racers requested paint instead of chrome.

A chrome frame is heavier than a painted frame and the main reason the "racers avoided them". The chroming process is a cause for hydrogen embrittlement if not correctly heated treated for stress relief after the chroming is done. The worst thing about a chromed frame is that the chrome plating makes any future welding/brazing/soldering repairs much more difficult unless the chrome is chemically stripped from the metal. It's a PITA any way you slice it.

John

 

[AmericanSchwinnfiend]

The chroming process is a cause for hydrogen embrittlement if not correctly heated treated for stress relief after the chroming is done.
Thanks John, that's a key tidbit of information for cyclists to keep in mind. The early, non-Schwinn BMX bikes were nickel plated, So, I'm guessing this may have been a reason for that?

 

[bloo]

I believe hydrogen embrittlement could rear it's ugly head with any electroplating, including nickel.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

The chroming process is a cause for hydrogen embrittlement if not correctly heated treated for stress relief after the chroming is done.
Thanks John, that's a key tidbit of information for cyclists to keep in mind. The early, non-Schwinn BMX bikes were nickel plated, So, I'm guessing this may have been a reason for that?

Nickle plating is "one dip short" of chrome plating.

Nickle gives the shine, and the corrosion protection, but not the same weathering durability of chrome. Vintage Nickle plated parts like Redline and Mongoose frames turned dull grey in a short time period. They looked brilliant and shiny on the showroom floor but did not last shiny like a chrome plated frame. The most likely reason for the Nickle finish being used on the early BMX frames was cost saving to the manufacturer over taking it one step further.

John

 

[AmericanSchwinnfiend]

I believe hydrogen embrittlement could rear it's ugly head with any electroplating, including nickel.

Nickel plating was easy, I remember having a chemistry set as a kid, I'd nickel plate copper coins like cents. Chrome was far more complex. Not something an 8 year old could do with a "D" battery and a solution bath. The best chrome was on top of polished copper plating. The copper acted like primer or glue. Cheap import tools often have chrome that flakes off because there was no underplating.

 

[Eric Amlie]

Another reason for the copper is that it makes the part easier to polish before the subsequent nickel, and then chrome layers.
Triple plating for quality.

 

[RustyJames]

Bringing back the original question…

Can you build a sub 20 lb steel bike? Absolutely! Can you build one with beefy tires that will handle rough terrain? Not if you want durability. Low 20s is within reach but you’ll be spending more than a few bucks to shave grams.

My 2 cents…