Resizing Sturmey Archer drum brake cable?

[Oldbikeguy1960]

I’ll just add the Knarps are awesome and very stong. And that soldering cables can be a serious pita with all of the oil residue left from the manufacturing process. Clean all you want, but sometimes it’s near impossible to get all of the residue out from between the strands. Another source for Knarp style fasteners is BMX u brakes that use a straddle cable. Those tend to be a bit larger in diameter.

Brake cleaner will clean it all out once the end is cut off.
Rob

 

[GTs58]

This cable is not universal, as the OP has even stated. He wants to cut it down because it apparently is too long for his applications. It would operate the brake exactly as it is.
Rob

The barrel on the other end is what makes that cable universal..!!!!. That barrel is used on the road bike, drop bar brake levers. I just don't understand why that's such a hard thing to believe or understand.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

Just as I cannot understand not seeing right in the post that the OP said it is not a universal cabe, it is meant to fit a touring bike lever and that drum. He wants to cut it down to make it the length of the original cable, which I do understand turns it into a universal cable.
The barrel end at one end is the lever end. The adjuster goes on the brake bracket and the fitting at the other end also has a sliding barrel fitting on it. Why would it in effect have 2 barrel ends on it if it is just a universal cable?
In all 3 of these photos what everyone here is calling the knarp is already built onto the cable end exactly like a motorcycle cable. In the last photo you can see the knarp is obviously not pulled up onto the brake arm as intended. If it were the brake would function as intended

The last photo below is the cable the OP has with his kit..
In this photo which I also posted earlier it gives a specific application on the package. Nowhere does it say anything about a universal cable. Universal cables say universal cable on the package.

I have been building, riding and restoring bikes since 1974. I know what a universal cable is. I have bought and used hundreds and not one has ever came with this type of fitting installed on it.
Rob

 

[Chavez]

Just as I cannot understand not seeing right in the post that the OP said it is not a universal cabe, it is meant to fit a touring bike lever and that drum. He wants to cut it down to make it the length of the original cable, which I do understand turns it into a universal cable.
The barrel end at one end is the lever end. The adjuster goes on the brake bracket and the fitting at the other end also has a sliding barrel fitting on it. Why would it in effect have 2 barrel ends on it if it is just a universal cable?
In all 3 of these photos what everyone here is calling the knarp is already built onto the cable end exactly like a motorcycle cable. In the last photo you can see the knarp is obviously not pulled up onto the brake arm as intended. If it were the brake would function as intended
View attachment 1579598
View attachment 1579599
View attachment 1579600
The last photo below is the cable the OP has with his kit..
In this photo which I also posted earlier it gives a specific application on the package. Nowhere does it say anything about a universal cable. Universal cables say universal cable on the package.
View attachment 1579601
I have been building, riding and restoring bikes since 1974. I know what a universal cable is. I have bought and used hundreds and not one has ever came with this type of fitting installed on it.
Rob

 

[Chavez]

I think everyone has this pretty well figured out, but here’s a pic of one of mine.

I’m not sure what I did regarding the above post. I think I clicked on reply to someone in particular. Didn’t mean to do that. My apologies.

The new drum brake parts kit has always included the screw on barrel or pinch bolt in addition to the complete cable/housing assembly from my experience. My take on it is if you can use the complete cable/housing assembly, then great. If not, you use the pinch bolt/barrel and make it to whatever size you need. But you do need the barrel shaped end to seat with the arm on the drum brake that the cable pulls on. My two cents.

 

[Chavez]

Just found the leftovers from the last hardware kit I installed. It had the pinch bolt and instructions for both styles.

 

[dnc1]

I see that cable has the pinch bolt, but it must fit applications as is also or why do they put the barrel on the cable when you would have to cut the end off the cable no matter what? I imagine that kit is if you need to cut the cable to fit a smaller frame like a Shopper 20 or similar bike.

As I said in the beginning,, I do not claim to be an expert on this particular application. I do however know a lot about cables in general. I can send multiple photos of premade cables for motorcycles with both ends on them that fit their applications without any trimming or cutting of the ends.

The British were well versed in this, I build and work on triumph, BSA and Norton motorcycles and can order cables for, say a 1967 Triumph 650 and they will fit the entire year and model range from 1963 on the first unit 650s to serial number DU66246 in mid 1968. The only reason it changed then was that the clutch bell crank design changed and the outer transmission cover has the filler hole in line with the new mechanism instead of on the top of the right engine case as DU66246 and earlier did.

Later clutch cables fit thru the end of the 750 series when Meriden closed in 1983, and even on the Triumph motorcycles built by L.F. Harris under license from John Bloor until 1988. Bloor then started producing the Triumphs we still have today and nothing fits any Triumph built after 1988.

Yes, it is quite possible I hijacked this thread, but another member posted that there are 2 different cables made by Sturmey Archer according to the style of the hub. He appears to be knowledgeable than any of us involving this matter. Yet the debate still goes on.

Sure, the OP can choose to cut his cable and use a barrel bolt end, nothing wrong with that on a bicycle. On motorcycles we call them emergency cable ends and as a rule do not run them permanently.

Or he can run his cable with a slotted barrel fitting and with the adjuster range, especially if there is an adjuster on the lever as well it should also work fine.

I will see if I can find one in a length that will fit my 1962 Schwinn Typhoon 20" Pig Bike with Sturmey Archer AB rear hub and matching front drum hub. I will buy it and show that it works, even though I may be making my own red cables in the end and I am pretty sure the S/A cables only come in black and white.

It may be a little while before I can mock up the frame, it is torn down for repainting but I can put a fork on it with my handlebars and brake levers. The rear hub is sitting in the dropouts now.

I will keep the thread informed or a new thread. It will also be in my Pig Bike Build thread.
Rob

...and right there you have an explanation as to the failure of the British motorcycle industry, until the revival of 'Triumph'.
Always too late to change and modernise, still using designs that were adequate for the 1920's right up until the 1980's.
Don't get me wrong I loved my Triumphs, BSAs and others, but they were out of date and out of touch with what riders could get elsewhere, namely reliability and machines that didn't break down practically every time you used them.

Now, back to the cable issue.
It has been clearly stated above re. modern "universal" brake cables that they have a 'pear' nipple on one end and a 'barrel' nipple on the other, you simply cut off which nipple you don't have at the lever end; this only applies to caliper and mechanical disc brakes.

When it comes to these modern SA drum brakes you need any of 3 different options offered.
They are all basically the same, differing only in materials used for the cables and/or adjusters.
Each option does come in four different length versions though; this is purely to allow routing on.different frame designs, from small bike up to tandem.
In theory though the tandem version should work on a small bike, but you'll just have a lot of looping of excess cable that would require careful positioning, lol.
So maybe just go for one of the shorter length cables to solve this vexatious question.
Here are the 3 options, each available in 4 different lengths that you.may want to order from your local SA supplier...
.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

...and right there you have an explanation as to the failure of the British motorcycle industry, until the revival of 'Triumph'.
Always too late to change and modernise, still using designs that were adequate for the 1920's right up until the 1980's.
Don't get me wrong I loved my Triumphs, BSAs and others, but they were out of date and out of touch with what riders could get elsewhere, namely reliability and machines that didn't break down practically every time you used them.

Now, back to the cable issue.
It has been clearly stated above re. modern "universal" brake cables that they have a 'pear' nipple on one end and a 'barrel' nipple on the other, you simply cut off which nipple you don't have at the lever end; this only applies to caliper and mechanical disc brakes.

When it comes to these modern SA drum brakes you need any of 3 different options offered.
They are all basically the same, differing only in materials used for the cables and/or adjusters.
Each option does come in four different length versions though; this is purely to allow routing on.different frame designs, from small bike up to tandem.
In theory though the tandem version should work on a small bike, but you'll just have a lot of looping of excess cable that would require careful positioning, lol.
So maybe just go for one of the shorter length cables to solve this vexatious question.
Here are the 3 options, each available in 4 different lengths that you.may want to order from your local SA supplier...
.View attachment 1579814


View attachment 1579815

View attachment 1579816

I totally agree with the reason for the fall of the British motorcycle industry! Triumph had a more modern engine, code named Diana, that would've brought them up closer to their competition.
They chose instead to modify existing designs with the modified version of the 1960s Rickman 8 valve refined by Weslake and Nourish in the late 1970s.
In other words they were still over a decade behind the rest of the industry with the exception of Harley Davidson.
Interestingly enough, Harley had V4 and V6 water cooled OHC engines in the works under AMF code named Nova that got shot down by the upper management and it almost caused their demise as well.
The M8 engine now is still based off an engine raced back in 1916! Too many people in power that do not want change.
I agree on the cables as well and am glad you pulled the catalog pages to show this fact to be true.
Thanks for the info.
Rob

 

[Iridis Nocturnus]

I forgot to ask why you need to resize cable. If slack due to stretch, try placing barrel correctly and also turn the adjuster lefty. That should take up slack and firm up braking action.

I need to remove at least 5 inches from the cable.

 

[Iridis Nocturnus]

Yes, that's what caught my eye.

View attachment 1579242

You are correct. And I did have it installed correctly when I was riding the bike. I just pulled a bonehead move and put it back together incorrectly to take those two photos for this thread, after I had already taken the wheel off.

However that barrel will slide right off if I cut the end off of the cable. It is not a knarp as it does not tighten to the cable in any way. I bought a pinch bolt and it did the trick, though.