Schwinn Documentary ….No Hands

[Schwinn Sales West]

Back when Al Fritz passed away, I had started a thread about how the Schwinn Sting Ray had affected so many of us young kids around the old neighborhood.
I had hoped to get more personal accounts and testimonials from the diehard Sting Ray guys, but it didn’t really take off.
I just remember a time when every 14 year old kid on the block had a Schwinn Sting Ray, and how it seemed like we had all sprouted wings and found our freedom.
Literally the old neighborhood became the World with a set of pedals and a pair of ape hangers.
That’s the kind of passion the story of a Schwinn bicycle needs to evoke.

I think it would be easier to gain some momentum if you included Sting Rays AND BMX bicycles. Depending on the rider age they certainly overlapped over the ten-year period. It was the same rider, really the same type of bicycle, and you would have a much greater potential group number. If you limit it to only Sting Rays, all you have left is "Old Guys", LOL.

John

 

[SJ_BIKER]

I'm very excited to see the documentary regardless of the minor technicallities on the website.
Per Google AI:
The first generation builds it" is a phrase that refers to an ancient Chinese proverb that states that the first generation builds wealth, the second generation preserves it, and the third generation squanders it. The proverb is also known as Fu bu guo san dai in Chinese characters, which translates to "Wealth never survives three generations".


I hope it'll inspire all of us and even better the newer generation yet to come. I often wonder what Ignaz if he were alive today would think of all his bikes and his kids bikes that still are being
bought/restored/refurbished/customized/improved upon/ or built from scratch in recent cases.
One thing is for sure there are good years to come.
Looking forward to all your reviews once it comes out.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

I'm very excited to see the documentary regardless of the minor technicallities on the website.
Per Google AI:
The first generation builds it" is a phrase that refers to an ancient Chinese proverb that states that the first generation builds wealth, the second generation preserves it, and the third generation squanders it. The proverb is also known as Fu bu guo san dai in Chinese characters, which translates to "Wealth never survives three generations".


I hope it'll inspire all of us and even better the newer generation yet to come. I often wonder what Ignaz if he were alive today would think of all his bikes and his kids bikes that still are being
bought/restored/refurbished/customized/improved upon/ or built from scratch in recent cases.
One thing is for sure there are good years to come.
Looking forward to all your reviews once it comes out.

Ignaz and Frank W. would be very proud of the vintage hobby and would have the buttons popping off of their vests.

Frank V. would write a very nicely composed letter, but not understand what all the buzz is about with this thing we call the vintage bicycle hobby?

You could ask Edward for his opinion.

John

 

[AS-1]

You could ask Edward for his opinion.

 

[SirMike1983]

A common thread that both Schwinn and Raleigh did well was to push the quality of their core product upward while pushing downward on costs. Those two seem as though they would be at odds with each other, but when you can increase quality and hold the line or decrease costs, you improve the value of the your product offered to the consumer. Ignaz and Frank W. Schwinn, and Frank and Harold Bowden had in common that they wanted to occupy the "high quality" segment of the market, but at the same time had a keen eye for reducing costs where possible. If quality dropped or workers slacked, the response was to put things back on track, and that went right to the top. This is part of why both companies were successful. And similarly, both companies tried to work directly with their labor forces for many years, rather than take an antagonistic approach (which incites unionization). And in both cases something was lost when older generations of management who were "factory floor" or "hands on" type managers retired or died off.

 

[Tom Carroll]

Let us not forget Steve Schwinn RIP

 

[Miq]

A common thread that both Schwinn and Raleigh did well was to push the quality of their core product upward while pushing downward on costs. Those two seem as though they would be at odds with each other, but when you can increase quality and hold the line or decrease costs, you improve the value of the your product offered to the consumer.

One strategy businesses use to acomplish this is vertical integration. By controling more of the value/supply chain you can (hopefully) improve the quality of the product and decrease costs. Its the opposite of what @Schwinn Sales West John mentioned about Ed Schwinn Jr. sending Frank Brilando to Asia to teach their competitiors/suppliers how to build bikes. I've seen that same story play out in other industries. It does not end well for the companies sending the experts...

If you buy your suppliers, your competitors have to pay you for the parts they were getting from those suppliers until they figure out how to resource those parts. That's some serious leverage over your competitors. If you create from scratch your own operations to produce more of the parts you use, you can have parts of higher quality than your competitors can access from their suppliers, and not have to pay a premium for them. But building that vertical integration takes a ton of money, skilled people, and time.

I know very little about the Schwinn history (maybe I should see the documentary) but it sounds like they did not do a good job transitioning production off shore and choosing the direction for new products. They were not the only ones. We (USA) are still realizing the tradeoffs with our desire to have inexpensive disposable goods vs sustainable on-shore manufacturing jobs. Seems like its starting to swing in a different direction slowly...

The thing that amazes me about the first generation Schwinn era was Frank's contributions. He was inventing and patenting bike technologies, but was also a high volume manufacturing nut. He has tons of patents for his ideas on how to make products at high volume. Guys like that can build companies that feed their offsprings for a generation or two.

 

[AS-1]

One strategy businesses use to acomplish this is vertical integration. By controling more of the value/supply chain you can (hopefully) improve the quality of the product and decrease costs. Its the opposite of what @Schwinn Sales West John mentioned about Ed Schwinn Jr. sending Frank Brilando to Asia to teach their competitiors/suppliers how to build bikes. I've seen that same story play out in other industries. It does not end well for the companies sending the experts...

If you buy your suppliers, your competitors have to pay you for the parts they were getting from those suppliers until they figure out how to resource those parts. That's some serious leverage over your competitors. If you create from scratch your own operations to produce more of the parts you use, you can have parts of higher quality than your competitors can access from their suppliers, and not have to pay a premium for them. But building that vertical integration takes a ton of money, skilled people, and time.

I know very little about the Schwinn history (maybe I should see the documentary) but it sounds like they did not do a good job transitioning production off shore and choosing the direction for new products. They were not the only ones. We (USA) are still realizing the tradeoffs with our desire to have inexpensive disposable goods vs sustainable on-shore manufacturing jobs. Seems like its starting to swing in a different direction slowly...

The thing that amazes me about the first generation Schwinn era was Frank's contributions. He was inventing and patenting bike technologies, but was also a high volume manufacturing nut. He has tons of patents for his ideas on how to make products at high volume. Guys like that can build companies that feed their offsprings for a generation or two.

The Schwinn failure played out like a game of 3-D chess. It was simultaneously intricately complicated and painfully simple. There were easily thousands of reasons.

To get a better perspective, please allow me to suggest that you read the book twice.

 

[Archie Sturmer]

agreed..... when they were at my space filming...the were batting around names...
one was "A love letter to Schwinn".... better for sure!

How about instead of a title, No Hands,

“Edward Schwinnster Hands”

We could ask Edward for his opinion.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

How about instead of a title, No Hands,

“Edward Schwinnster Hands”

Exactly why I would recommend you read the No Hands book, and possibly watch the documentary for the history of the Schwinn company.

Edward Schwinn owned and controlled less than 2% of the company (family trust). He was simply a Schwinn employee that the family trust gave no oversite, or support. Every business decision was a battle.

The Brownie Schwinn side of the family, daughter Debbie Schwinn-Bailey and Brownie's sister Betty Schwinn-Dembecki and all of their families owned the controlling interests in the Schwinn Family Trust. They choose no outside investor ownership or direction.

Edward takes the public heat because he occupied the top office when it all went down, but his hands were tied by the controlling family trust who did not comprehend the size of their problems. I'm not here to defend Edwards actions (some questionable), but he's hardly fully responsible for the entire collapse. The trust needs to share in the default, they always wanted to share in the Schwinn rewards during the good times.

Edwards personality was a clash with the family trust from the start. But, I do not believe they had a better family member groomed to assume the president position. Hindsight is always crystal clear, they should have hired outside the family like they did with Bill Austin COO (Thermos Lunch Boxes), and Ralph Murray COO (Toro/Rainbird) both were very capable. Bill Austin ended up at both Giant USA and Raleigh USA/Seattle. Even Schwinn VP Jay Townley ended up running Giant USA for a period.

John