The Facts About A Schwinn Serial Number

[REC]

56 Phantom

When you say outdated 1963 model...from the new 1964 Schwinn model.

How did you determine the differences ?
What did you look for ?

Not having a 56 Phantom to compare...the next best thing is hope that someone will
have one & we can share comparisons .

BTW:
I have '52 & '53 Phantoms ( based on the frames)
And one thing I do know is this:
When it came to the "pin-striping" (done by hand)
on the forks & around the tank...there is not much consistency
from one year to the other !

What are you looking to compare on the Phantom? (and based on this discussion, are you sure of the year?)

I have a red one with an April 56 dated frame.

REC

 

[2jakes]

What are you looking to compare on the Phantom? (and based on this discussion, are you sure of the year?)

I have a red one with an April 56 dated frame.

REC

REC...

I believed that the serial numbers stamped on the rear of the frame
determined the year the bicycle were assembled.

In this thread, certain points have been brought up with regards as to
whether the numbers refer to just the frames built on that date & perhaps
the completed bikes at another date.

This was interesting topic for me.

If possible it would be nice to know when my bicycle was assembled.
How important is this to me ? Well, if I never find out...I won't loose
sleep over this. I still enjoy my bike. Nevertheless...you asked me...

What am I looking to compare on the Phantom ?
The truth is , I don't know. I only have one red Phantom.
I would have to have another to check & see if there are
similarities or not.

These are the serial numbers stamped on the rear of the frame on my
red Phantom:
T-31370
Schwinn lists this as Oct. 01 to Oct. 11, 1955.

You've asked me "based on this discussion, are you sure of the year ? "

Well ... let me ask you this....

You say you have a red one with an April 56 dated frame...

So please tell me & everybody reading this...how you are so sure
about your date ?

Thank You....

 

[GTs58]

Here is a 1970 Tandem with two sets of serial numbers, one at the rear dropout and one on the headtube. This was during the time when Schwinn was relocating the serial numbers.

So when was this frame built if you believe the serial number is somehow the build date of a frame? And if you don't believe the serial numbers were stamped on the bikes component prior to any frame build, why are there two different SN's in two different locations with the numbers thousands of units off? If the frame was stamped with a serial number when it was built wouldn't the two serial numbers be the same if someone wasn't thinking and forgot where to place the serial number the day he was stamping this bike's numbers?
I still believe the old Schwinns had the serial number stamped at the time the frame was built if it has a hand stamped serial number. When Schwinn started using an automatic mechanical stamping press all the serial numbers were stamped on the bikes component prior to any frame build. This proves that small fact without a doubt.

Dropout number.. EF32709
Headtube number.. EF015984

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=181150920780

 

[Blueschwinns]

Serial Numbers

You have solved the mystery. Based on the tandom bike, Schwinn did stamp the serial number on the frame when they built it. Since they only produced a limited number of tandoms they just kept them until needed. In the mean time Schwinn decided to move the serial number up to the steer tube and so when they painted and assembled the bike they kept with the numbering they were using that day. Thus the two sets of serial numbers.

Here is a 1970 Tandem with two sets of serial numbers, one at the rear dropout and one on the headtube. This was during the time when Schwinn was relocating the serial numbers.

So when was this frame built if you believe the serial number is somehow the build date of a frame? And if you don't believe the serial numbers were stamped on the bikes component prior to any frame build, why are there two different SN's in two different locations with the numbers thousands of units off? If the frame was stamped with a serial number when it was built wouldn't the two serial numbers be the same if someone wasn't thinking and forgot where to place the serial number the day he was stamping this bike's numbers?
I still believe the old Schwinns had the serial number stamped at the time the frame was built if it has a hand stamped serial number. When Schwinn started using an automatic mechanical stamping press all the serial numbers were stamped on the bikes component prior to any frame build. This proves that small fact without a doubt.

Dropout number.. EF32709
Headtube number.. EF015984

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-EF-Sch...true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557#ht_64wt_884

 

[GTs58]

Wishful thinking. If that was the case, which it surely wasn't, there would be hundreds of thousands of bikes with two sets of serial numbers.

You have solved the mystery. Based on the tandom bike, Schwinn did stamp the serial number on the frame when they built it. Since they only produced a limited number of tandoms they just kept them until needed. In the mean time Schwinn decided to move the serial number up to the steer tube and so when they painted and assembled the bike they kept with the numbering they were using that day. Thus the two sets of serial numbers.

 

[REC]

REC...

I believed that the serial numbers stamped on the rear of the frame
determined the year the bicycle were assembled.

In this thread, certain points have been brought up with regards as to
whether the numbers refer to just the frames built on that date & perhaps
the completed bikes at another date.

This was interesting topic for me.

If possible it would be nice to know when my bicycle was assembled.
How important is this to me ? Well, if I never find out...I won't loose
sleep over this. I still enjoy my bike. Nevertheless...you asked me...

What am I looking to compare on the Phantom ?
The truth is , I don't know. I only have one red Phantom.
I would have to have another to check & see if there are
similarities or not.

These are the serial numbers stamped on the rear of the frame on my
red Phantom:
T-31370
Schwinn lists this as Oct. 01 to Oct. 11, 1955.

You've asked me "based on this discussion, are you sure of the year ? "

Well ... let me ask you this....

You say you have a red one with an April 56 dated frame...

So please tell me & everybody reading this...how you are so sure
about your date ?

Thank You....

The "based on this discussion" comment was due to the multiple directions the comments have gone.. I still go with "I read it on the internet. It has to be true!"
Regarding my Phantom, I bought it and brought it to live with me. Once it got here we talked....
VERY tongue in cheek in the comments.

The frame number is based on the published list. Of course, I don't have complete faith in that either as I have seen exceptions to it too. I DO think it is fairly accurate for the most part though.

The characteristics of the bike fit well into what is shown in published advertising for the time period as well. The only real research I've spent a lot of time on is the period between the 30s and the fire in '48. The rest of the ones I have are based pretty much on the published list. I don't have a lot of post 60s stuff though, so the numbered headtubes are not something I have a lot of to base anything on, and only a couple with the stamped badges. Didn't like the newer stuff then, and have not found much of it since that interested me.

In reality, I started keeping a database of older numbers coming up on 10 years ago, and it has grown into a good sized project. It started when I was looking for an early production Cycle-Truck. I now have two of those, and a few post war ones. (Total currently is 11)

The attached photo is my Red Phantom

REC

 

[2jakes]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts & information with regards to this topic.
As you already know, there are many diversifying comments & opinions.
And I like that because I'm always learning something new.
I commend you on your long dedication to your projects .
Plus that Red Phantom "ain't too bad either "...

 

[younggun'85]

here we go with the serial numbers again!?!

There is a point in time where America got turned upside down. 1963. They killed a president, they killed the dollar, they sold our souls to the communists. Anything after that is skeptical. Everything from Affirmative action to the space landing to Watergate. Prior to that things were different americans weren't driven by politics they were driven by the american dream. You did your job you did it right or you didn't do it at all. GTS58 we have seen your facts they all come from a period when gas costs too much and people started living for the dollar. I'm sure most...a lot of bikes were lost, left, and assembled at will as was everything else in america after the dollar lost its worth in weight. And then in China after the penny lost it's worth. I have read through these threads over and over and still can't see where an early '53 frame isn't a 1953 bike or where a late '53 bike isn't either a '53 or '54 model. I have yet to see someone bring a bike they know to be original with a '49 serial number and built into a 1955 model. It just didn't happen then. You might get lucky and find that a late '53 Jag or cycletruck or tandem frame was used for a '55 model, but I doubt a standard schwinn frame sat around tucked away in some forgotten corner of the factory for more than a year. For "classic" and "antique" bikes the SN is the date it was "BUILT" The day it was "assembled" was likely shortly after that. As well as three years later after it got stolen off of johny's porch and chopped into a different model and 25 years later when it was parted out and "restored" into a bare bones beach cruiser and again a month from now when I take the nice spray bombed "1952" black phantom frame I got for a good deal at the Minnesota Vintage and Antique Bicycle Club swap meet and slap a repop whizzer kit on it and drive it like I stole it off Johny's front porch in 1955! The serial number is just that a number stamped in sequence onto a bicycle frame to indicate where in the sequence it was produced. If you are looking at the serial number it is because you can't tell what year the bike is. In other words I have to look at ALL my serial numbers. If you can tell what year and model your bikes are by looking at them you should stop wasting your time talking about serial numbers or should I say you have time to waste talking about serial numbers. Those of us that do rely on serial numbers stand true to them because it reminds us when we are looking for parts/ paint/ accesories what is better suited for the "spirit" of the bike. My 1965 deluxe racer is stamped June 1965, the white wall tires I upgraded to are dated June 1965, the Stewart Warner speedo I got for it is dated June 1965. The later style pumpkin light I just put on wasn't made until 1967. It looks nice, but it doesn't represent a June 1965 bike. It's not in the "spirit" of a June 1965 bike. Now if it was just my "60's" bike then I might leave it. Same thing with my april 1965 "shorty" stingray. It was originally a junior. It could have been assembled any time from april 1965 until 1966 into a junior stingray and if it was a November 1965 frame I would have left it that way, but since it's an early 1965 I prefer it to be a deluxe stingray. Maybe even put a blue band on it someday. Now it wouldn't be in the "spirit" of a deluxe stingray if I used a shorty frame with a late 1965 date code. Now if I had a nice original 1965 deluxe "shorty" stingray I wouldn't care what the serial number was because I would know it was an early 1965 deluxe stingray. Again the same thing with my January 1969 five speed stingray being converted into a pea picker. Now if it was a 1968 five speed stingray it would stay that way because they didn't make a pea in '68. I might use a late '68 frame and an early 69 shifter/ parts to make a '69 pea picker. I mean I could make a 1968 Pea just as I could make 1968 coal krate, but I like to be able to look at old catalogues and dream about having one of those top of the line bikes and to be able to show my friends and family that don't know/ don't remember these bikes and say that's what my bikes going to look like right there. Well anyway, I put in my 27 cents I need to quit wasting anymore time and get working on some bikes.

P.S I was the one that came up with the "conception" bike, but it must have been too "R" rated for the schwinn forums. It went "You could get a frame made on your day of conception and tell all your friends you and your bike popped out of the factory on the same day"

 

[island schwinn]

i'm guessing this is a real touchy subject.i've seen frames that were dated 2-3 years older than the components on the bike.i posted my fairlady.frame date and components were all over the board.plain and simple,the date code is not the build date.

 

[2jakes]

i'm guessing this is a real touchy subject.i've seen frames that were dated 2-3 years older than the components on the bike.i posted my fairlady.frame date and components were all over the board.plain and simple,the date code is not the build date.

What was the purpose to stamp numbers on the frames ?

Is it possible that the components were also installed at around the same
period as the frames ? Maybe not that same day but close .

The Phantom came out in '49 & throughout the 50s.
Perhaps the reason for the components being all over the board
might be because what we have today are products that were
made over half a century ago.

And in that time...could it not be possible that a local bike shop or owners
could have updated the components as needed. Components that were made
at a later date.

In the past I have replaced components on my Phantom because some original parts
were completely wasted. I would prefer to keep it as original as possible.
But sometimes this is not possible.

It just doesn't make business sense for a company to produce a product one year &
then have a period of 2-3 years before adding the components . I would think that
they were being built, shipped out with more bicycles being built every year.
And if the components were all over the board, It was the local bike shops or
individuals who were doing this for the simple fact to replace a damaged or missing
part of the bicycle. It's still being done to this day.

I have a mostly original Schwinn Phantom that I ride regularly. I say "mostly" because I
have replaced the original Schwinn tires with reproductions. Also the saddle on some.
I now keep my originals ( as suggested by Bricycle...in a cool & dark area)
If years from now someone will find my Phantom & see that it has repo tires
I wonder if they will blame Schwinn for putting repos made overseas. Which is
now the case on most products made today.

I'm not going to say this is what happened. This is just my opinion.
I agree with you that it's a touchy subject. I just don't understand why it has
to be.
There is validity in what you say & also what others have said &
I respect that.