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chitown

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jun 21, 2010
2,924
Prospect Heights, United States
Nice ride Bud! With great original paint and nickel. Love those Cali Bars too... would love to see those flipped around racer style!


General question to Davis folks:

Why don't any of the Davis built/badged bikes share any of the features of the Harley bikes they supposedly built. Drop-outs, forks, fork crown, rear stays, lugs etc??? Or is there something I'm missing here?

Thanks,

Chris
 

bud poe

I live for the CABE
Aug 18, 2009
1,051
Portland, Or.
Thanks!
This frame is lugged and has "HD" looking chain adjusters...Not sure though about the other issues. I suppose HD could've had some pretty specific designs that they wanted their bicycles to have to set them apart from the rest?
I do have another Davis built Victor that is not lugged but of the same era so I was kind of wondering the same thing....
 

thehugheseum

I live for the CABE
Apr 5, 2011
1,055
Wilsonville, United States
Thanks!
This frame is lugged and has "HD" looking chain adjusters...Not sure though about the other issues. I suppose HD could've had some pretty specific designs that they wanted their bicycles to have to set them apart from the rest?
I do have another Davis built Victor that is not lugged but of the same era so I was kind of wondering the same thing....
yeah yeah,great bike,super paint bah blah....................how about an 1890s bike already..............get some wood....wood!
 

hoofhearted

Saint Lactose The Tolerant
Jan 20, 2010
4,266
Fairborn, Ohio
bud poe and many others ... some specifics regarding the biggest differences between the Dayton Motorbike Frame
AND the DAVIS Motorbike Frame are addressed in these pics. The DAVIS was purchased by this writer .. after a hot
tip from Dave The Wave ... thank you, again, Dave !!!

......... patric cafaro

00000adavis3  001.jpg
5L45K35Hc3I83F23J5c9aaa0da6bf853d10a5.jpg
5Nb5I45V63K43M83Hbc9a00c0ab568d2b1190.jpg
5Id5K35P43na3M73F3c9a448876513ea518de.jpg
5L55N95Mf3M83Ic3J9c9adcea83c17dc01f04.jpg
 

hoofhearted

Saint Lactose The Tolerant
Jan 20, 2010
4,266
Fairborn, Ohio
bud poe .. chitown .. and many others .. The H-D rides were based on the DAVIS formula for fabrication. DAYTON bicycles
had DAYTON-ONLY features ... with the exception to the 1918 model year, when some DAVIS bicycles had a single lug (like
the Dayton) at the top of the seat mast AND Dayton SLEEVED ADJUSTERS at the drop-out plates.

.......... patric
 

chitown

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jun 21, 2010
2,924
Prospect Heights, United States
Patric,

Thanks for the illustrations. So Davis had multiple fork, drops/chain adjusters and frame building process' at a time when most of the plant (60%) on war efforts? Besides the fact that the bicycle department was trying to fill the government orders for the Columbia Standard military model bicycle. To me that Harley you've got looks more Mead than anything else.

booksidFzsVAAAAYAAJpgPA119img1zoom3hlens-1.jpg

booksidFzsVAAAAYAAJpgPA120img1zoom3hlens-1.jpg


Not to mention the fact that the plant was set to close down in 1917 for "considerable new machinery" for making tractor parts:
booksidpkBPAQAAIAAJpgPA1016img1zoom3hlen-1.jpg


Then there is this article taken from the Davis Daily News, Oct 9th 1932:

Then along about 1914 the automobile sprang into widespread popularity, and the bicycle was forced to give ground. Following closely on the heels of this new vehicle’s appearance came the World War, and while no one in Dayton realized it at the time, it really sounded the death knell of this famous old industrial plant.

At the command of the government, the Davis halted its production of bicycles and sewing machines and converted a large part of its machinery into the manufacture of munitions. Again the payroll boomed, but it was not the solid, substantial prosperity that had attended its peace-time years. Munitions were provided to meet the government’s demands. But each day that the machinery was on that work it was growing farther away from the time when it could again be utilized for producing the things for which it was originally intended. The regular business of the company suffered. The electric sewing machine came in and was marketed by several competitors at a time when, through force of circumstances, the Davis was unable to meet and cope with such competition. The cry was for munitions and more munitions. The world was being made safe for democracy—but at the cost of the Davis reputation and markets.


Source: http://www.daytonhistorybooks.com/davisdayton.html
 
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chitown

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jun 21, 2010
2,924
Prospect Heights, United States
So Harley may have had a contract to fill bikes with Davis Sewing Machine co, but when the war broke out and Davis was pushed into defense contracts, is when they may have struck up relations with Mead to take up part of the contract to fill those orders. We know there was a relationship with George Lewis and Horace Huffman when they formed the Dayton Rolled Metal co, in 1925 but there is little evidence of their relationship before that "merger".

WWI had companies pledging unity and support for the government. I think this is a key time in bike manufacturing. In the late teens, there was a movement to "standardize" the bicycle manufacturing process under one government run department. Horace Huffman was one who thought "standardizing" the bicycle would benefit the industry.

James Mead was not on board with this philosophy... mainly I guess because he already had a thriving company with several patents on manufacturing techniques.

Davis had some patents too, just not ones that were practical:
patentsidG7N9AAAAEBAJpgPA2img1zoom4hlens-1.jpg

patentsidG7N9AAAAEBAJpgPA1img1zoom4hlens-1.jpg


In 1916 they were still designing the lug/fishmouth joints:
patentsidihhsAAAAEBAJpgPA2img1zoom4hlens-1.jpg

patentsidihhsAAAAEBAJpgPA1img1zoom4hlens-1.jpg


In 1919 here was their fork manufacturing design:
patentsidqTBmAAAAEBAJpgPA4img1zoom4hlens-1.jpg

patentsidqTBmAAAAEBAJpgPA2img1zoom4hlens-1.jpg
 
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hoofhearted

Saint Lactose The Tolerant
Jan 20, 2010
4,266
Fairborn, Ohio
CHRIS (chitown) ... your ability to bring up documents related to what we are discussing is remarkable.
You have great ability in the research arena !! Good stuff. i do need a clarification, tho. What HD do i
have that looks more like a Mead than anything else ?

....... patric
 

redline1968

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Oct 16, 2008
5,337
Seattle, United States
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
 
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redline1968

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Oct 16, 2008
5,337
Seattle, United States
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
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hoofhearted

Saint Lactose The Tolerant
Jan 20, 2010
4,266
Fairborn, Ohio
CHRIS (chitown) ... after re-reading your most-recent post .. i have concluded that you do not believe that Davis
was making all those fork and frame variations, at a time when Davis was swimming in government contracts to
fabricate munitions to support the war effort (WWI). i find it difficult to believe, also.

LONG AGO i realized that our own reality is formed by our perceptions. For the longest time i refused to buy into
those Sailing Rocks or Moving Rocks of Death Valley. Now, i really believe that these rocks move .. thru no assis-
tance of human involvement. i also believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Don't ax me how is it that i believe in
the reality of these things ... i JUST DO.

ANYHOW, CHRIS ... i am attaching some pics that serve as information. Am not trying to force anyone to believe
in anything. If i were to engage in that behavior .. it would be an uphill struggle for me. An individual's thoughts,
beliefs and perceptions are just that ... they belong to the individual possessing them. If i have any power at all,
it is in the realm of influence, not thought control.

AM ATTACHING a bunch of fotos .. some of which the reader may believe are reflective of real, physical objects ...
others may be dismissed as hogwash.

........... patric

post script ... if any repetition occurs in the management of attachments ... the reader can be assured that i have
no control over this feature .. only influence.

800px-Death_8_bg_082303.jpg
Racetrack-Playa-Death-Valley-2.jpg
800px-Racetrack_Playa_(Pirate_Scott).jpg
Davis heavy duty truss fork.jpg
Davis standard duty truss fork.jpg
800px-Death_8_bg_082303.jpg
Racetrack-Playa-Death-Valley-2.jpg
800px-Racetrack_Playa_(Pirate_Scott).jpg
Davis heavy duty truss fork.jpg
Davis standard duty truss fork.jpg
Davis standard duty truss fork lowers.jpg
Harley14 heavy duty fork ends.jpg
Dayton chain adjuster.jpg
 

hoofhearted

Saint Lactose The Tolerant
Jan 20, 2010
4,266
Fairborn, Ohio
OKAY .. OKAY ... THIS DAVIS STUFF KEEPS presenting itself to me. Several weeks ago, a seller parted a Chief
Bicycle ... here is the fork ... Heavy-Duty variety ... has thicker truss-rod supports than the standard duty.
This writer did not win the fork.

IN ADDITION ... the fork blades and truss-rods terminate at a triangulated plate, in the lower area of the fork.
Very sano !!!

THIS FORK INTERCHANGES with all Davis standard-duty forks ... on all DAVIS rides from 1915 thru 1922 ...
except the Dayton.
$T2eC16J,!zEE9s3!(ImuBQIw-FjjM!~~60_3.jpg
$(KGrHqV,!g0F!YJMkvbsBQIw-JBejg~~60_57.jpg
$(KGrHqJ,!n4F!F)lrBb,BQIw-SRzRQ~~60_57.jpg


$(KGrHqZ,!j!F!eEMfr+vBQIw-Rq,uw~~60_3.jpg


$(KGrHqJ,!loF!TZGYireBQIw-PiV0w~~60_3.jpg


$(KGrHqJ,!joE+4435gBmBQIw-FdP9g~~60_3.jpg


$T2eC16V,!)8E9s4l7,pjBQIw-RKwEw~~60_3.jpg


$(KGrHqF,!lMF!iFJh4nmBQIw-QsmZg~~60_3.jpg


$T2eC16J,!zEE9s3!(ImuBQIw-FjjM!~~60_3.jpg


$(KGrHqV,!g0F!YJMkvbsBQIw-JBejg~~60_57.jpg


$(KGrHqJ,!n4F!F)lrBb,BQIw-SRzRQ~~60_57.jpg
 

bud poe

I live for the CABE
Aug 18, 2009
1,051
Portland, Or.
Patric, What year would you place my Dayton bicycle pictured earlier in this thread? Do the forks look like standard Davis/Dayton equipment to you? I can post closer pics as well as serial # tomorrow...Thanks in advance for any info...
 
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hoofhearted

Saint Lactose The Tolerant
Jan 20, 2010
4,266
Fairborn, Ohio
BUD POE ... this is for you ... see attachments ....... AND ...... Both Bottom-Bracket Illustrations Are Correct ......
either one would apply. Now, i do not know what Model Year YOUR PARTICULAR DAYTON is ... but .. you can flip
it upside-down .. scrape some paint if necessary .. and post the pic on this thread. Your Dayton will be documented
thru-out eternity.

......... patric
BUD POE dayton.jpg
BOTTOM BRACKET  002  MODEL YEAR.jpg
BOTTOM BRACKET  003  MOD. and MANUF. YEAR.jpg
 

chitown

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jun 21, 2010
2,924
Prospect Heights, United States
CHRIS (chitown) ... after re-reading your most-recent post .. i have concluded that you do not believe that Davis
was making all those fork and frame variations, at a time when Davis was swimming in government contracts to
fabricate munitions to support the war effort (WWI). i find it difficult to believe, also.
I wouldn't go so far as me not believing... just having a difficult time believing. Especially since Davis was coming up short on the government orders for bikes. "Sorry Uncle Sam, the troops will have to do without the bikes you ordered, we are busy building bikes to be marketed to Boy Scouts and kids in general... General."...or something along those lines.

booksidrNUpAAAAYAAJpgPA1img1zoom3hlensig-1.jpg


booksidrNUpAAAAYAAJpgPA507img1zoom3hlens-1.jpg


That heavy duty fork of the 1918 Harley looks similar to the 1915-16 Ranger.

8015630828_ff8cbe0877-1.jpg
Harley14 heavy duty fork ends.jpg
 
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