Westfield Frame Numbers 1933 - 1945


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Mercian

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jul 1, 2016
468
752
52
France
#1
Dear All,

I have posted a Westfield frame number/date list from 1939 to 1945 in the Military Bicycles section:

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1939-1945.100742/

This is just a first draft, so I would welcome any further Westfield frame types/codes/numbers that expand the information already there, and push known dates back from 1939, and forward from 1945.

Thank you for your help.

Best Regards,

Adrian
 
Last edited:

Bozman

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Aug 6, 2009
742
853
Alexandria, Virginia United States
#2
Adrian, I have some more bikes to add to your list soon.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
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Mercian

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jul 1, 2016
468
752
52
France
#5
Hi All

Thanks for your replies so far. Bozman, I look forward to your contributions, Rollfaster, thanks for the image, I've had difficulty finding earlier bikes, and this will help sort that out.

Bikewhorder, Mr. Columbia's site contains an excellent listing of frame numbers by year, and I certainly couldn't have started this without that help, and the frame numbers he subsequently supplied, which I acknowledge in my post.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/DDB9/production/_92616765_heinz1.jpg

Where I came in here is that I recently bought a G519 Westfield Columbia (MG154118 / K8) missing a lot of parts. From Mr. Columbia's list I could see it was late 1943, but nothing more. Liberator has a page dedicated to these bikes, and from there I learned that 1943 saw a lot of detail changes, so I became interested in understanding when these occurred by frame number.

http://www.theliberator.be/militarybicycles.htm

From the internet, and later from people here, I recorded various details (S/N, BB/N, frame type, Eclipse hub code, chainwheel type etc.), and will be putting out a table of these details for Westfield G519 shortly (the Huffman Dayton one I compiled at the same time is already on the CABE here):

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/huffman-dayton-g519-frame-numbers.100336/

Mr Columbia said on his site about the BB numbers between 1936 and 1945:

This starts serial numbers being stamped on frame under crank hanger. The letter preceding the serial number indicates year of manufacture. Often there will be a separate letter with 1 number near or above the serial number. The meaning of this is not fully understood but all evidence to this time indicates that this has nothing to do with the year of manufacture and the serial number. Best guess is this was a part number of the crank hanger forging itself for factory use to identify the part before it was brazed or welded onto the frame.

I recorded the 'separate letter with 1 number near or above the serial number.' and soon realised that there was a pattern that showed these to be a separate year/month code for the production of the frame. I also saw that this system applied to all Westfields at this time. I had more examples to hand, and an interest in that specific dating problem which allowed me to make the link not available to Mr. Columbia.

The final breakthrough came during this CABE conversation on Westfield Compax:

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1944-columbia-compax-military-model-folding-bicycle.99850/

This allowed me to collect numbers for other frame types (and showed people were interested!). It allows year /month dating of the frame production, and has also given an insight into production techniques (Work in Hand, when the final serials were stamped) and shown that, probably due to the complexities of Wartime production, the prefix to the main serial number is not as straightforward as you might think, with, for example, the prefix W appearing in addition to MC, MG, G etc. This is still only a fraction of 1% of all Westfields produced at the time, so there could be other codes out there too.

I hope that helps explain what I'm tying to do.

Best Regards,

Adrian
 
Last edited:

Mercian

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jul 1, 2016
468
752
52
France
#6
Hi All,

Rollfaster, I've added your number to the table for the next version. Could you tell me what type of bicycle (mens/womens, or better still, the actual model) it is please?

As promised above, Boz has sent a significant list of numbers that he has recorded, so I hope to get version two of this list out soon, incorporating these additions. Thank you for your help.

If you have other details to add, please contact me, the table becomes more useful with the more information that can be included.

As a special request, has anyone got details of a genuine MF military Columbia?

Best Regards,

Adrian
 

Mercian

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jul 1, 2016
468
752
52
France
#8
Hi All,

In case it's of interest, I have just posted Version 1 of the G519 Westfield Columbia list in the Military Section.

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-columbia-g519-frame-numbers.101109/

The G519 Huffman Dayton list is here:

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/huffman-dayton-g519-frame-numbers.100336/

There are around 70 bikes on the Westfield G519 list. I am still working through an extended list of 1935-1945 Westfields (currently around 150 bikes) which will be published here shortly.

If you have any comments, please make them below, or by PM.

Best Regards,

Adrian
 
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Mercian

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jul 1, 2016
468
752
52
France
#10
Hi Buster1,

Thanks, it's on the list (-:

I now have around 200 sets of bike details, from 1932 to 1945. These have (mainly) been gleaned from the CABE with the search terms 'Westfield 1945', Westfield 1944' etc. I'm sure if I do a second run using 'Westfield '45' etc,; and a third using 'Elgin 1945' etc. I'll pull up more, but I think I'll get to the end of the first search (it's a lot of work), publish it, and see if the response merits further time.

I should complete the first run this week, then a little tidying of the table into a good format before putting it here.

Thanks, as ever, to those who have helped so far.

Best Regards,

Adrian
 

Mercian

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jul 1, 2016
468
752
52
France
#11
Dear All,

Please find below Version 1 of a listing of known serial numbers and details of around 200 Westfields built between 1933 and 1945.

This has come from several sources, with various CABE members kindly supplying lists of their own, for which I thank them, as well as my own internet searches here and elsewhere.

The searches on CABE were mainly carried out using the Keywords ‘Columbia 1933’, ‘Columbia 1934’ etc., between 1933 and 1945. I estimate this led to me reading around 1000 topics, and 5000 e-mails for this first list. When I’ve recovered (!), I may go back and search again with other keywords (Elgin, Bluebird etc.). This could explain why your bike is not here if you look for it. If it is not here, or if it is, and you can supply further details, then please let me know here or by PM for a Version 2 list.

Since this is a Version 1, it is not perfect, and is here for corrections and additions to be made. I am not an expert in Westfields, you have (luckily!) Mr. Columbia for that. I was more interested in the frame and BB numbers for dating, but it made sense to collect the other information at the same time.

Types of bicycle are described as accurately as I can from the text, if you have a better identification, again, let me know.

Similarly, I know there are ‘collector’s terms’ for some of the different types of chainwheel. Where I know what these are, I have used them, otherwise they are my own description. Let me know, and I will happily change them to the accepted form.

Where I have not been able to verify information (even if I could guess what it was) then I have put N/K for not known. I hope you will fill in some of these spaces.

BB Codes; These appear to be year/month dating codes for the production of the frame.

A = 1934

B = 1935

C = 1936

D = 1937

E = 1938

F = 1939

G = 1940

H = 1941

I = Not Used

J = 1942

K = 1943

L = 1944

With the number 1 to 12 following indicating the month.

They start at A in 1934, and end in December 1944with some of these frames being built up in early 1945. I have not yet found an ‘A1’, but it may not exist, there is no reason to suppose they started the year with this coding system. But I would love to see one.

When placed in serial number order, the BB codes sometimes dart around a bit, but generally increase. This is probably due to the frames being held in stock after manufacture, then the serial number being stamped on when they started to be built up, from conversation with Mr. Columbia, just before the frame was painted. This is most obvious at year ends, where frames coded, for example L12 (December 1944) have early 1945 serial numbers.

The Prefix letter originally started out as a dating letter (L = 1933, etc.) but during wartime production this was not strictly adhered to, probably to help identify different customers or contracts. In 1943, which should have been prefix G, we see MG, MC, and W (and possibly others, yet to be identified due to the small sample here). The BB numbers remain constant through this period helping to accurately date the frames with unusual serial number.

I hope this is of some use to you.

Best Regards,

Adrian

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jawa kaw

On Training Wheels
Mar 17, 2013
9
9
Cebu
#14
very nice information you have here, i own 2 westfields and these inputs are of a great help to identify what year model it was created. :)
 

Robertriley

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Apr 15, 2010
7,855
12,004
Riverside, Ca
#15
I wish I saw this before now and I would of added a bunch to you. I will see what I can come up with for you to add. Good stuff, thank you.
 
Likes: Krakatoa

Mercian

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jul 1, 2016
468
752
52
France
#17
I wish I saw this before now and I would of added a bunch to you. I will see what I can come up with for you to add. Good stuff, thank you.
Hi Chris, it was a deep dark days of winter job. Since we are approaching that time again, if you do have any info you'd like to share, then it's a good time to send it through. It'll prompt me to make an updated version (-:

Krakatoa, Merci!

Best Regards,

Adrian
 
Likes: Robertriley

Demzie

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 10, 2014
126
93
Green Bay, WI, United States
#20
I've got some to add for you.
I'm told by the MrColumbia it's a '45.
It's got the Coffin Sprocket I believe to be Original. Here's a photo only the Frame, Fork and Crankset are original to my knowledge. The frame and forks absolutely. (OG paint)

Serial Number: #J19363

(The "1" sort of stamped like an capitol "i")
IMG_20181117_045647.jpg
IMG_20181117_231335.jpg

IMG_20181118_145952.jpg
 

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